Logs for #trilema

Go to: #trilema #pizarro #asciilifeform #trilema-mod6 #chainstate #eulora

2019-6-30 | 2019-8-1

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/bitcoin-recapitulation/ << Trilema -- Bitcoin Recapitulation
mp_en_viaje: soo... there's a picture somewhere on trilema obliquely included. it depicts a standing older naked "black" female, in front of a derelict suburban home, with some other debris about, maybe a dead bbq set. white walls, a sad lawn. evidently google van captured footage.
mp_en_viaje: anyone got a title ?
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-50-of-american-kids-receive-food-stamps-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 50% of American Kids Receive Food Stamps. Adnotated.
diana_coman: trinque: from what I see though the genesis.vpatch is a snapshot of /cuntoo/portage dir *only* which means that the actual tarballs with the code are not included anyway - so basically it will still fail to find them as soon as whatever URI in the ebuild doesn't host them anymore, what am I missing?
diana_coman: to me it seems that there should be a tmsr repo with the tarballs (aka contents of /cuntoo/distfiles) but then all the ebuilds in genesis need updated too
diana_coman: see above my trouble with mysql - it's not as much the "ebuild" that is missing but rather the whole darned tarball from all the URIs that the ebuild knows about
mp_en_viaje: imo there should be no repo other than the genesis itself.
mp_en_viaje: include the damned things.
diana_coman: that was my initial expectation really but I suppose it's sheer size or something - the genesis is 4.6M as it is (ebuilds only)
diana_coman: come to think about it, there is some weirdness there: the source tarballs are relegated to this "distfiles" dir but at the same time, patches to apply to those are considered part of the ebuild; what's the logic there - patches are code-er than the rest or what
mp_en_viaje: size still can't be an argument here. if it's too big, it'll be too big to be used at all, not too big to be genesised.
diana_coman: true; I'll wait for trinque to comment since it's his genesis
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-51m-vioxx-verdict-overturned-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - $51M Vioxx Verdict Overturned. Adnotated.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-5-signs-your-child-is-a-psychopath-according-to-the-nyt-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 5 Signs Your Child Is a Psychopath, According To The NYT. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: apol. for the comment spam, i misplaced a decimal point.
diana_coman: so uhm, who do I need to ask to actually get #ossasepia logged?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-11#1922318 - this doesn't seem to work so I don't know who else - phf, trinque ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-11 14:19 diana_coman: ben_vulpes can I have #ossasepia logged too please?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect ben is at sea or in orbit or somewhere, it took ~week iirc when i asked him to get #a logged also
diana_coman: it sucks; because I suspect the most common questions will be the same and I'd very much prefer to point them to the log
asciilifeform still recovering from 6+wk saecular crapola shitfest, setting to get conveyor moving, publish plans, etc. it's rather like waking up from coma.
diana_coman: well, I'm "enjoying" tonsillitis, if that's any help
BingoBoingo: In pseudo local news, ebola is creeping up on the Uruguayo Army's base in Africa https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Un-caso-de-ebola-en-Goma--Ejercito-Uruguayo-tiene-tomadas-todas-las-medidas--uc724259
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, you getting them out /
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: lolz; if I didn't get them out at 9, no chance now; neah, they are my sleep-deprivation indicator simply, lol
mp_en_viaje: lol
diana_coman: in unintentionally funny: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/12/my-first-hours-on-devto/comment-page-1/#comment-6132
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/ibm-begins-lobbying-campaign-against-section-230/ << Qntra -- IBM Begins Lobbying Campaign Against "Section 230"
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
girlattorney: hi, thanks for voice, i'm here to ask about trb. Installed it on my PC, and after 28 days almost synced. Then it happens the following: when TRB is almost at the current height (as now, 585,647), it stays back a few blocks, like now that is at 585640, and just cannot catch the latests blocks
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, which trb / how did you install it ?
girlattorney: latest trb (currently available on thebitcoin.foundation) installed on debian 8
mp_en_viaje: you mean, did you press http://btcbase.org/patches to say http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks ?
girlattorney: yes i've got that patch
mp_en_viaje: (which would be the "latest" trb, though obviously v-trees are a little different from traditional notions of latestness)
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, are you on a consumer link, behind a nat router etc ? or is this a dc box ?
girlattorney: nat router + ssh tunnel to VPS to have fixed IP
girlattorney: i don't get why just the latest blocks are soooo slow to fetch
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/%d0%a3%d1%81%d1%85%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%bd%d1%96%d1%8f-%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%b3%d1%96%d0%bb%d0%ba%d1%96-%d0%9c%d0%b0%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%be%d1%9e%d1%81%d0%ba%d1%96-%d0%9c%d1%96%d0%bd%d1%81%d0%ba-aka-the-eastern-cem/ << Trilema -- (, ) aka The Eastern Cemetery (Maskowskaya, Minsk)
mp_en_viaje: hm.
mp_en_viaje: this is actually not what should be happening ; if you stick around there'll prolly be a barage of questions as asciilifeform trinque mod6 & all wake up.
girlattorney: ok, going to register my key
girlattorney: btw i noticed that trb only connects and fetch blocks from other trbs, so i don't get what happens with the other core nodes
mp_en_viaje: admitting they exist in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: you'll need a rating from someone deedbot knows to be able to voice yourself ; it's inconvenient for me to give you one cuz im travelling ; but patience, i suspect someone else might in short order.
girlattorney: ok i'm gonna wait. I'm just interested in what happens with TRB nodes: with a public site that list public nodes (with 8333 port exposed, site is bitnodes dot something), i checked and it says that there are 8 TRB nodes.
girlattorney: so if only these nodes are interacting with themselves, where they fetch the blocks from?
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, your notion of identity is not adequate for the situation you're dealing with.
mp_en_viaje: what do you call "a node" ? is it an ip-port combo ? you can trivially set up your own box to be two nodes in this sense ; i have boxes with a whole block c allocated, how would you know what's going on /
mp_en_viaje: consider it from the other pov : if tomorrow the aliens land, do yo uthen say "the aliens are... well... three guys" ? just because three guys are all the aliens can be bothered t oshow you does not mean "that's all there is"
mp_en_viaje: the bitnode notion of a node is about the same as the electoral notion of a "voter" : meaningful for just as long nobody gives a shit. then it's all "m00t won time's man of the year".
girlattorney: well, for me a node is ip + port combo that gives me blocks and eventually transactions
mp_en_viaje: well, for you there's then no answer to the "how do trb nodes get blocks" question you had.
girlattorney: if it's just an ip + port it can be a "fake" node. What interest me is the fact that TRB seems to ignore the nodes with a user agent different than "therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88". I even tried to just have a "addnode=*corenode" and in some odd way it finds a way to communicate only with the TRB nodes
mp_en_viaje: the problem is deeper than just the user agent ; fake bitcoin nodes send out all sorts of spam and otherwise misbehave. it's not possible to meaningfully communicate with one automatically, it requires skilled human hands.
mp_en_viaje: there's years of discussion about this scattered through the logs ; have you found the logs yet ?
girlattorney: tried to read them, but I haven't found a significant keyword to search with this specific topic.
girlattorney: btw i'm very grateful that still exist a client without segwit and without other useless crap. so glad to be able to almost sync it
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22ban%22+%22prb%22 << for instance.
mp_en_viaje: (prb is the name given to the one remaining group of scammers masquerading as bitcoin developers, in memory of their "[http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/in-re-bitcoin-devs-are-idiots.htm][power rangers]" heritage. numerous others have meanwhile discontinued, too many to merit enumeration.)
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: (the whole "power rangers" thing started with [http://trilema.com/2014/the-sins-of-the-group-of-posers-behind-the-so-called-bitcoin-foundation/#selection-77.0-77.475][an event in 2013], when some usg agents masquerading as bitcoin developers (mike hearn, etc) wilfully introduced a bug which split the network while the other morons (wuile, maxwell, etc) failed to notice. the thing had to be undone through miner collu
mp_en_viaje: sion, demonstrating what the usg thought at the time a viable avenue of attack, that i had to spend an inordinate amt of slave time and assorted resources to bolt shut for them, and so following.)
girlattorney: thanks for the insight, i'm reading the log
mp_en_viaje: and in other lines, what's a girl attorney's life like ?
girlattorney: a very rich life i suppose (not my job, I have to deal with my ex's one)
mp_en_viaje: that didn't parse
mp_en_viaje: in other sads, i'm reading internet "[https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/05/08/venus-envy/][science]" : "If there were no Sun (or other external energy source) atmospheric temperature would approach absolute zero. As a result there would be almost no atmospheric pressure on any planet -> PV = nRT."
mp_en_viaje: holy hell what, wtf "crusoe social philosophy" is that supposed to be! even with no sun, the gas would still be trapped by gravity, thus there'd still be a pressure, thus there'd still be a temperature, wtf "absolute zero". atmospheric pressure is trivially given by the ~height~ of air column, not by the fucking temperature holy hell these people.
girlattorney: if it could interest, from 0 to block 584k, TRB has written to disk almost 8 TB
mp_en_viaje: there's probably some room for optimization wrt disk usage ; but that's rather wating for the more comprehensive trb-fs thing
girlattorney: and last thing that i found a little annoying: no exportprivkey in any form, just dealing with wallet.dat to import/export private keys
mp_en_viaje: yeah, wallet actually needs some work.
mp_en_viaje: wanna write a patch ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922497 << 'stays back' as in always 3-4 behind what someone else's (who's?) node height ? or perma-wedged at height h ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 10:44 girlattorney: hi, thanks for voice, i'm here to ask about trb. Installed it on my PC, and after 28 days almost synced. Then it happens the following: when TRB is almost at the current height (as now, 585,647), it stays back a few blocks, like now that is at 585640, and just cannot catch the latests blocks
girlattorney: I have little coding skills, but definitely is something that i'm willing to do when i learn to write in C
asciilifeform: ( if it's the former, this is not in any sense a problem, you can still operate )
asciilifeform: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: !!rate girlattorney 1 trb n00b / new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oJWNs/?raw=true
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i expect she's just comparing to blockchain.info or w/e other webwallet
asciilifeform: !!v 4147FF6CA25D12780FEF4747850614B76EEE0A94CE19F61A29BF9287B867028C
deedbot: asciilifeform rated girlattorney 1 << trb n00b / new blood
girlattorney: asciilifeform so: currently from this site https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 i see that the height is 585654. My node is at 585641
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i also expect. and this is 'teachable moment' :
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, ok, so no c, but what skills do you have ?
girlattorney: i can use other source if there is another site more realiable
mp_en_viaje: top of chain is i ndeed 654.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the various 'blockchain walker' sites do tend to be connected to many nodes at a time, on industrial pipe, so naturally will tend to get new blox slightly faster than human, in a residential pipe
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje i know a little bash, i used to compile bitcoin core until knowing TRB and my project would be to compile TRB for an arm board, to eat less energy than my PC (the ARM board would be an hardkernel Odroid hc1)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: good news, long ago i fixed it so builds 100% clean on arm (32 and 64bit both)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you'll need a board with at least 2GB tho
girlattorney: asciilifeform thanks, i'm going to search on logs if you haven't a direct link. The hc1 is 2gb indeed
asciilifeform: girlattorney: mod6's current snapshot will build and run.
asciilifeform: (i.e. what you have.)
girlattorney: it's an arm board with a sata slot, so i can attach a 1TB ssd and let TRB running for a couple of years
asciilifeform: which board btw ?
girlattorney: odroid hc1
girlattorney: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc1-home-cloud-one/
asciilifeform: decent, reportedly similar to [http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rk][rk]
asciilifeform: hey look at that, mp_en_viaje , finally 'pogo' with 2GB
girlattorney: i saw the rockchip, it was more expensive and i found these HC1s (a couple) used from a local guy that sold them to me at a price
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, you can just use eatblock, have it synced from known-good chain in a day or so
asciilifeform: looks like potential replacement for the current rk , even.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, ok, bash. but... do you have your own practice ? or work for a firm ?
girlattorney: @mp_en_viaje nothing public, after reading trilema and some logs I wanted to open a blog to report my stuff, but haven't got yet my ip space
mp_en_viaje: i c
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922523 << trb doesn't ignore, the (prb-powered) 'blockchain sites' ignore.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 11:27 girlattorney: if it's just an ip + port it can be a "fake" node. What interest me is the fact that TRB seems to ignore the nodes with a user agent different than "therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88". I even tried to just have a "addnode=*corenode" and in some odd way it finds a way to communicate only with the TRB nodes
asciilifeform: it does disconnect peers who spew garbage, though, and that's ~90% of the supposed nodes on the net
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922540 << this is pretty odd, current chain weighs ~280G
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:07 girlattorney: if it could interest, from 0 to block 584k, TRB has written to disk almost 8 TB
girlattorney: asciilifeform that's something interesting: once (not now, a couple of days ago) i was able to get to the general height, thanks to a couple of restart that allowed me to get those last blocks (it seems that when TRB starts, always download instantly 10-15 blocks). Basically when it was at the network height (synced) it was also connecting to core
girlattorney: nodes (prb) and other nodes that first were banned from
asciilifeform: if you were looking at linux disk stats, you may have box with swappism enabled. (or do you actually have a 8TB drive, that trb somehow filled ?!)
girlattorney: asciilifeform i know, indeed is 280 GB, i was saying that the total write process from 0 to 584k is 8TB, i expressed myself badly
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb (for time being) retains the classical 'ask peers for new peers' mechanism, so unless you hand-curate the peers (most trb folx do) you will inevitably connect to garbage nodes at the statistically expected rate
asciilifeform: girlattorney: seems that your box has swapping then
girlattorney: if i do a df -h on my box i have also 270-280GB occupied, not 8TB
asciilifeform: disable swap; i have found that on 2GB+ boxen trb , despite heavy mem fragging, will not overrun 2GB
mp_en_viaje: ^
asciilifeform: ( swapism -- nukes ssd quite quickly )
mp_en_viaje: trb does not need (and does not much benefit) from swapping.
asciilifeform: actively un-benefits.
mp_en_viaje: aha.
mp_en_viaje: iirc she was on a vps tho. os not exposed to her.
girlattorney: well, i've used a 1TB consumer SSD to sync, rated for 200 TB written before die
asciilifeform: aa hrm i misread (still waking up), assumed she's on that luscious arm box.
girlattorney: so i just used 2-3% life of the ssd, not a big issue (i'll only sync once hopefully)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: in my flagship trb box, i found that 1T samsung ('standard', rather than 'pro', not yet tested 'pro' series) ssd runs for just short of 2yrs prior to write cycle exhaustion
girlattorney: then it remains read only or also smash the content already written inside?
asciilifeform: larger unit (formatted to e.g. half capacity) will live longer, in principle, as more blocks between which controller can spread write cycles
asciilifeform: girlattorney: 'samsung' will typically go read-only; cheaper/chinesiums will usually turn into 100% brick , when exhausted
girlattorney: @asc
asciilifeform: ( in either event, you will no longer have bootable linux box, if you want the contents will have to plug it into another )
girlattorney: @asciilifeform thanks for the info, i'll make my backup on tape before that event
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb is its own backup, think about it
asciilifeform: plug in another node, it is automatic real-time backup of the other..
girlattorney: it really sucks after 28 days of sync starting from zero, knowing that a lot of nodes are hostile and nowadays nobody ain't giving away bandwith
asciilifeform: girlattorney: what usg did to bitcoin net, in p2p theoretical parlance is known as 'sibyl attack'
asciilifeform: i.e. fleet of garbage nodes, set up on the cheap
girlattorney: in a near future i think that it could have sense to have a TRB marketplace, where you can buy your ready-to-deploy box
asciilifeform: as you can tell, however, bitcoin still functions; simply it requires genuine node operators to do a little bit of hand curation of peer selection
girlattorney: even if you are in NY and the boxes ships from sydney, with DHL the pre-synced box would appear well before a standard sync
asciilifeform: girlattorney: i attempted to bake exactly such in '14 , but the iron wasn't there yet ( we got a large supply of certain arm box, but only 256MB of physical mem, and only ~then~ found that without a total rewrite, trb cannot be sat down in 256M or even 1G )
asciilifeform: !#s pogo
a111: 1185 results for "pogo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pogo
asciilifeform: ^ see also
girlattorney: asciilifeform in 14 i suppose that the blockchain was in the order of 10 GBs, very easy to move even with crappy WAN pipes
girlattorney: now it's a real pain
asciilifeform: naa was already 100+
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje actually has a circa-2014 snapshot hosted somewhere
girlattorney: now we are sitting on 270GB mostly well splitted in educated 2gb blk00*, but then there is a thick load of 50gb named blkindex that fucks up everything, cause file hosting generally doesn't like these weights
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, the problem with your idea is that you can't really buy an identity.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: in my experience, trb (with my 'aggression' patch) syncs from 0 in roughly 3wks, on a decent (fiber) pipe. however, last did this yr+ ago, and unsurprisingly the interval will only ever increase, as the chain gets heavier (on avg., grows 1000000 bytes erry 10min, recall)
mp_en_viaje: either you are skilled, or you aren't. if you aren't, buying the glasses i wore or the bed i fucked in won't do much for you.
asciilifeform: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you should be able to self-voice now, btw, after i rated
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb on public toilet 'vps' hosting is generally a nonstarter
girlattorney: you can split it, etc.... but nothing beats having your box ready to be attached to ethernet and sync 100-200 blocks
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje ok, so i declare myself skilled!
mp_en_viaje: lol so then get yourself a proper box, and have fun.
asciilifeform: that's the gold standard, yes, physical box, w/ ssd, running strictly trb, and on serious (preferably industrial, but top-of-class residential fiber also worx) pipe
girlattorney: i have a physical box, never said i was hosting. Just saying that if you want to move across the internet a synced node, today is a pain
mp_en_viaje is satisfied that the "i'm 0 to a dozen or so blocks behind at all times, varying" is mostly due to scheduling issues related to the visor management of the vps and its resources.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, so wait, is this delayed trb running on a vps or on its own colocated box ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: slow pipe will do it, and likewise slow disk
girlattorney: own colocated box
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, and likewise slow netstack unwind and all sorta things.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, hmm, that is pretty weird then.
asciilifeform: ~95% of cpu cycles (as measured by asciilifeform in '16) of trb, is spend waiting for disk.
asciilifeform: *spent
asciilifeform: recall also that even during 'cold start sync', node is still attempting to operate as a node. it will be bombarded with tx from the peers, and (unsurprisingly) will walk the db and typically not find the referenced block , at given time (cuz it doesn't have it yet)
asciilifeform: this adds up to quite heavy load.
asciilifeform: trb, unlike prb, does not accept blocks 'on credit' (i.e. ones for whom the antecedent block is not yet on the disk)
asciilifeform: and ditto tx for whom the referenced output is not yet in any received block
asciilifeform: this means that it rejects almost all inputs during initial couple of weeks of operation.
girlattorney: asciilifeform and for this reason i think that in a couple of years it won't have sense anymore doing a cold start
asciilifeform: rejects -- expensively.
girlattorney: instead the newcomer will need to buy a premade box
girlattorney: that's my forecast
asciilifeform: girlattorney: it is already rare for trb people to do 'cold start', usually they 'light smoke' from existing
asciilifeform: but 'cold start' is important test of 'network health'
mp_en_viaje: her idea's not without some merit, one could just buy the datafiles.
mp_en_viaje: test it on their own software.
mp_en_viaje: ~this could even be s.nsa product~ you know. "we ship you either 1tb ssd or 2tb ssd formatted for 1tb with the current blockchain"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i actually suggested this, in '17
asciilifeform: !#s cement trb
a111: 4 results for "cement trb", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cement%20trb
mp_en_viaje: i recall. but now there's actual demand, lol.
mp_en_viaje: you wanna do it ?
asciilifeform: hrm. it's in log.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: defo, all of the moving parts already in place for it. ( and apparently nao there is a $49 pogo-cum-2GB ? )
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, you wanna buy it ?
girlattorney: i also plan to sell them, because i have some people that i know irl that want their node but they do not want to wait 20 or 30 days
girlattorney: of course there is some trust in the middle
mp_en_viaje: a, i guess no treally, if she's already up to 580k
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, so sell his, get 2 bitcents or w/e for your trouble
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess nothing like 2 bitcents, it ain
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess nothing like 2 bitcents, it ain't [http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/][2014] anymore.
asciilifeform: girlattorney, mp_en_viaje : the fundamental problem is that bitcoin per se is, arguably, an exercise in 'can avoid getting all blocks from 1 trusted peer ?'
mp_en_viaje: yes.
asciilifeform: if answer is 'no', then net is seriously ill. if 'yes can avoid', then why buy canned db.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know what ? the right way to go about this would be to offer pizarro customers pre-populated disks on demand.
girlattorney: 200 USD? that's the cost of the bare hw, (arm + ssd). At least 400 USD
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, i was discussing your cut if you sell his.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this is easy to do, only rub is that there are already 3 ( 4? ) trb nodes at piz, all on 1 ip block, and sharing a quite modest pipe.
asciilifeform: trb btw still retains the ancient mechanism where 'try to avoid connecting to >1 peer on same 24block'
mp_en_viaje: yes, but still, dc delivery better than mail delivery.
asciilifeform: indeed
mp_en_viaje: let the buyer do what he will with the chain, is the diea
asciilifeform: it's a notbad idea. BingoBoingo i think you already have the parts.
mp_en_viaje: i think you should put this in your offer / sales materials. proeminently.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje in my case i'm talking about 50-60 years people that want to be part of BTC without messing technically. Like, i go to their premises, attach the ethernet cable and explain how to send/receive/backup and then flee
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb is more like kalashnikov than television set. i.e. can be made 'user friendly' only to a point.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, "being part of btc without messing technically" is like having sex without getting naked.
mp_en_viaje: i don't care what those people "want", or think they do -- they can't be part of btc because i say so.
asciilifeform: even if mp_en_viaje hadn't said, illiterate folx still 'cannot be part', they will kill selves with elementary coarse error of pilotage
mp_en_viaje: the whole fucking point of being part of btc in the first place is so that your life as you used to prior live it becomes strictly impossible.
asciilifeform: witness e.g. the various folx who publicly nervous breakdown from 'i threw out disk with keys, could have been rich!111' etc
girlattorney: i get your point, i just sell them because i get my %
mp_en_viaje: more powa to you.
girlattorney: (want to sell, still haven't compiled on ARM)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: it builds and runs 100% on e.g. rk3328 (64bit arm) w/out changes.
asciilifeform: if you have a working toolchain now, you can build and be up & running in 40min. or so.
girlattorney: crosscompile on x86_64 is too hassle or it's worth the time to change the parameters on makefile?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: mod6's build system ( based on asciilifeform's earlier 2015 'rotor' (see logs) ) builds first a frozen-in-amber gcc & friends, ~then~ the depds (db etc) , ~then~ trb per se
asciilifeform: i.e. repeatable build, doesn't care what's on your box currently
asciilifeform: no need to cross compile unless you're building for something too small to run gcc itself ( and chances are it won't run trb , if so small , as with 'pogo' )
girlattorney: so i can just cp -r the dir already compiled on x86 on the arm board?
asciilifeform: instead get working linux and toolchain on the arm box, then build w/ mod6's system.
asciilifeform: mno
asciilifeform: you carry out mod6's build recipe ~on~ the arm box
girlattorney: ah ok now i get it
asciilifeform: aite.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you will definitely want to talk to BingoBoingo when he wakes up, about www hosting.
asciilifeform was about to ask 'so what kinda attourney...' but noticed that mp_en_viaje already ask
girlattorney: last question: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Qp2pT/?raw=true
girlattorney: this is debug log at start
girlattorney: 10.* is address of the NAT box
girlattorney: 5.* is the address specified with myip
asciilifeform: looks like you're behind nat aha
girlattorney: of course i am
asciilifeform: for 'adult' trb node, you will want to route public ip to it
girlattorney: but i'm using a tunnel
asciilifeform: aa
girlattorney: still it gets the local address aside from the specified myip
asciilifeform: worth to see whether it actually works ( can connect to the public addr from another net ? )
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you gotta set the public addr ~manually~
asciilifeform: -myip=your.public.ip.addr
girlattorney: yes, i'm able to connect externally, my question is: can i tell TRB to not announce my local address?
asciilifeform: like that.
girlattorney: already doing that in the log that i linked
asciilifeform: so what makes you think it is announcing your local ip ?
girlattorney: because is in the log
girlattorney: first there is a addrLocalHost, then another addrLocalHost
girlattorney: when i ran TRB in a box with a public routable address, there also was the double addrLocalHost, but always with the same public routable address
girlattorney: behind a nat there is no way to tell TRB to ignore the 1st addrLocalHost
asciilifeform: [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp?v=makefiles#1280][did you actually set -myip=yourpublicip] ?
girlattorney: yes
asciilifeform: [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp?v=makefiles#1271][the default gets spuriously printed prior to arg being parsed], this is arguably ~harmless but bug.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: feel free to submit vpatch for it.
asciilifeform: i will sign (and expect that other folx also will)
girlattorney: i hope so, cause i was starting to thinking that TRB getting stuck fetching the last blocks could because the local address
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the gold standard for 'is my trb node publicly reachable?' is : to connect to it from another trb node.
girlattorney: ok
asciilifeform: girlattorney: which is why you want to advertise at least 1 of your nodes , in your fleet, publicly, to other trb folx
asciilifeform: the place for this, traditionally, is here, in #t.
girlattorney: currently i'm trying to obtain IP space, after i'll announce my node
asciilifeform: why incidentally , do you need the tunnel ? thoroughly rotten residential isp that blocks all ports ?
girlattorney: it blocks none, but it's a dynamical IP
asciilifeform: how much dynamic ?
girlattorney: so everytime I cycle the modem i also need to cycle my box
girlattorney: to change the myip parameter
asciilifeform: e.g. asciilifeform's , is in principle 'dynamic', but in practice changes 1 a year or so
asciilifeform: aa
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, do you happen to have handy where in log i outlined strategy, "first, deny usg use of network, then deny use of land" etc ?
asciilifeform: tunnel method worx, but imposes considerably overhead, girlattorney , you will want to get a serious pipe. i don't imagine it is a painful expense for attourney
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632664 ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 15:03 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible".
girlattorney: and for me it's a pain cause i'm behind a VDSL connection. No FTTH. Copper attenuation is still a real thing and the modem likes to reboot
mp_en_viaje: nah.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you can recall coupla details re thread, i can prolly remember it
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-24#1211049 is either reference or early disclosure, wtf where did i put the cannonical form
a111: Logged on 2015-07-24 00:06 mircea_popescu: in any case : the front against the usg in the cyber world is only going to strengthen the way it's going. within a decade we will see full area denial in the sense that no govt anything will still run online.
asciilifeform: aa aa, i read it backwards, thought it was re 'usg deny' rather than 'deny usg' lol
mp_en_viaje: aha
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you will definitely want a civilized pipe, when working with bitcoin , it is not avoidable
girlattorney: with civilized you mean ftth?
asciilifeform: ip-over-dead-goat doesn't cut it, people have tried
asciilifeform: girlattorney: fiber, yes.
girlattorney: i asked to the local fiberman, they quoted me 5k USD to dig up to my premise and lay fiber
girlattorney: still too much expensive
asciilifeform: get quote from 2-3 telcos or whatever is to be had where you are
asciilifeform: 5k is ultracheap btw , for a dig
girlattorney: considering that government run it for free if you live enough to wait for them
asciilifeform: lol can wait for century.
girlattorney: not for free, they pay it with debt, but still as user i get the product
asciilifeform: as you pointed out, 'get' if live enough. and it will be a 'maybe-works' product, rather than what you want, necessarily.
asciilifeform: you don't stand in bread queue and eat from gov.operated 'soup kitchen' from hobos; why wouldja do this for net pipe.
girlattorney: just because a couple blocks distant from me they actually have laid fiber
asciilifeform: at risk of repeating -- 5k is a steal for fiber dig.
girlattorney: it depends where you live
asciilifeform: it is cheaper than moving house.
mp_en_viaje: i got http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-02#1494775 and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591387 ; none of which are, infuriatingly, it.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-02 04:34 mircea_popescu: so, strategically, we (as in, humans, people, we) are confronted with an adversary (ie, socialist state, usg, aliens, the devil incarnate, pure evil, etc) that predicates its relevancy upon targeted computing denial (see http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-enforcement/ ; and also http://trilema.com/2015/mika-epstein-aka-ipstenu-is-a-thoroughly-clueless-poser/ re the ddos "we won't fix" and so on )
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 21:37 mircea_popescu: which i suppose is the main strategic direction of tmsr - in a few years they either pay us to "secure" all systems or else the systems burn down.
mp_en_viaje: o fuck yeah, found it! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758470
a111: Logged on 2017-12-25 18:07 mircea_popescu: so, to get on the same page here, the general strategy is, 1. construct undisruptable comms ; 2. disrupt usg&friends comms ; 3. disrupt usg&friends physical presence.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922765 - this must be an euloran item
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 13:33 asciilifeform: ip-over-dead-goat doesn't cut it, people have tried
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lolyes. i also like 'gas modem'.
asciilifeform knows several people stuck on what may as well be gas modem
diana_coman: better than coal modem, presumably
girlattorney: in sweden 5k could be peanuts, in portugal a year of working of an average worker, in nigeria life savings
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you did not specify your geography, so i assumed usa (not because always assume usa, but because it is country with world's worst bandwidth market. as in, behind nigeria, congo, et al )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for example, in usa. where for 5k you can not even usually have the water pipe to your house fixed.
asciilifeform: much less fiber dig.
diana_coman: in my many wtf from the dev.to expedition: most (and by this I do mean 90%) of the profiles in there list "looking for work" but then not even one of those actually inquired there at "come work on what matters", not even a "where?" or anything (and they saw it, yes, the "heart" it but won't say a peep)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in pleebland 'lookign for work' is code for 'looking for money' normally
girlattorney: but US is a strange world. You get quoted 80k for a day in hospital, then 8k cause your healthcare plan has negotiated the price
diana_coman: might be looking out for work as in to make sure it doesn't actually find them
asciilifeform: girlattorney: and the treatment for the 80/8k will consist of 8cent aspirin.
girlattorney: lol... so true
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, good for you oing through it, anyways.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, are you in the states then ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, wtf was that "moment when soviet realises soviet system rotten" ? not morozov moment lol, but what ? -ov something
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ah, I'm not complaining really, it's ...another world, what can I say; just still puzzled as to how they reason there
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: navrozov
asciilifeform: !#s navrozov
a111: 13 results for "navrozov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=navrozov
mp_en_viaje: kurchatov!
asciilifeform: anti-kurchatov lol
mp_en_viaje: hehehe
asciilifeform: orig. here via http://btcbase.org/log/2013-04-30#7382 << >> https://archive.is/AYhl (orig site is borked)
a111: Logged on 2013-04-30 01:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on the death of academia: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/07/my-navrozov-moments.html (moldbug)
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje no
mp_en_viaje: ima leave http://trilema.com/2018/cu-cartile-pe-masa-un-fleac-l-au-ciuruit/#selection-403.1-407.0 here and then use this as my refpoint
mp_en_viaje: it's much better thsi way
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922586 << ftr , is because of >> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922649 .
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:29 girlattorney: asciilifeform that's something interesting: once (not now, a couple of days ago) i was able to get to the general height, thanks to a couple of restart that allowed me to get those last blocks (it seems that when TRB starts, always download instantly 10-15 blocks). Basically when it was at the network height (synced) it was also connecting to core
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:52 asciilifeform: trb, unlike prb, does not accept blocks 'on credit' (i.e. ones for whom the antecedent block is not yet on the disk)
mp_en_viaje: sooo... this month's been the largest trilema outpour (by count) since... like 2017 or so i think. go me.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-5-things-you-need-to-understand-about-wikileaks-before-you-celebrate-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 5 Things You Need To Understand About Wikileaks Before You Celebrate. Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: and, coincidentally, willing to bet "[http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/12/my-first-hours-on-devto/comment-page-1/#comment-6142][Iren Korkishko]" is exact clone of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922441
a111: Logged on 2019-07-14 15:17 mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, in other lulz, nicole dredged up local blondy ex-mech engineer turned java developer (sorry mocky, chick never heard of you). she intends to start her out outsourcing comp (because hates working with idiots ; yet if challenged "what you gonna do when rich ?" she wants to come up with some garbage sorting solution, because idiots do ~nothing but produce garbage and she doesn't understand the beheadi
mp_en_viaje: ie, i'll be in kiev towards the end of the month, and she'll http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-205.565-213.535 all over self, and that's that, another dead soul for the count.
mp_en_viaje: basically, the situation among the youth would be, ten milion walflowers waiting patiently around imaginary walls, and 0 dancing getting done on the dance floor (let alone fucking holy god omg).
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, anyway, you can't possibly spend your life supporting random dorky platform. get a script to enumerate users and hi them automatically, or somesuch.
asciilifeform: oh ha finally to ukrs
mp_en_viaje: ikr.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: myeah re won't spend life supporting them for sure; re script tbh it's such a pile of "open source" that I'm not even sure I'll spend my life making a script for it.
mp_en_viaje: speaking of which, i wonder what happened to phf
asciilifeform: !#seen phf
a111: 2019-07-06 <phf> that will make it apparent that you're still walking Input in order, one by one, because right now offset/ptr combination make it seem like you might be stepping by more than 1 and taking slices
asciilifeform: apparently comes up for air.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, there doesn't seem to be much value there tbh. the main item with these is "do i have any reason to suspect there may be live humans invovled anywhere". which is why fetlife and not okcupid, forinstance, to take that example.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: there have been so far at least 2 coming over into #ossasepia and by the looks of it possibly alive
mp_en_viaje: ah ? i stand corrected then.
diana_coman: myeah, if only I had a logger in there so I can point to logs...
mp_en_viaje is not the definitive eye in such matters, for one thing little practice and for the other i suspect i have mild case of asciilifeformism.
asciilifeform: speaking of which, from old compendium of 'militarisms' : new division commander shows up, and , to the troops lined up on platz, utters : 'i will discipline just like you know from kindergarten : some to tribunal, some will be shot in front of the regiment... '
mp_en_viaje: they didn't shoot offenders in front of kindergarten where you went ?
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform recall mp_en_viaje's 'glass kindergartener sculpture' piece
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922678 << This is an interesting possibility
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:58 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know what ? the right way to go about this would be to offer pizarro customers pre-populated disks on demand.
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell girlattorney It appears you are looking to set up a blog. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922579 I can get you a place to blog set up by the end of the day http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:26 girlattorney: @mp_en_viaje nothing public, after reading trilema and some logs I wanted to open a blog to report my stuff, but haven't got yet my ip space
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922576 << It does, doesn't it
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:24 asciilifeform: looks like potential replacement for the current rk , even.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: on examination, loox like may not be, cuz dun boot 'blobless' like rk
BingoBoingo: Ah
asciilifeform: but -- cheap. and 2G ram/GB nic/sata/etc. potentially useful, for, as original poster , trb.
asciilifeform: would rather not have'em at piz tho unless bootloader can be neutered.
girlattorney: BingoBoingo how much for a shared hosting and how much for a dedicated box with an ipv4 annualy?
lobbesbot: girlattorney: Sent 12 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> It appears you are looking to set up a blog. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922579 I can get you a place to blog set up by the end of the day http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/
asciilifeform: girlattorney: http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-hosting-rate-sheet/
girlattorney: tnx
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: A year of shared hosting runs 0.0216 BTC, we are a bit squeezed for vacant machines until asciilifeform brings some more down here. Any particular configuations you favor for a dedicated box?
asciilifeform: there's a vacant rk, prolly adequate for anything short of trb node
girlattorney: well the prices are a high for my budget, will check if here there somebody that want to group buy a node in uruguay to split the cost
asciilifeform: i admit i'm curious now, what kinda budget is it where <100 u.s/mo is 'high' . and where exactly girlattorney has been getting physical box colo that costs substantially less.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local lulz, the "ley de bolsas" is beginning to deliver some serious lulz https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/los-problemas-de-las-nuevas-bolsas-entre-el-calor-y-un-hongo-que-afecta-su-produccion-2019715195536
BingoBoingo: No one could have predicted the biodegradable bags would rot in storage!
phf: mp_en_viaje: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OdqwQ/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: And in Qntramments http://qntra.net/2019/07/finnish-and-japanese-researchers-find-incredible-lack-of-evidence-for-man-made-climate-change/#comment-131970
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/ukrainian-maidan-government-aligned-militia-caught-smuggling-missile-in-italy-threatening-salvini-assassination/ << Qntra -- Ukrainian Maid...ment Aligned Militia Caught Smuggling Missile In Italy, Threatening Salvini Assassination
BingoBoingo: Also in local news: general being cut from 15 to 12, Colonels from 200 to 120, and why should soldiers be obligated to obey? https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Con-los-votos-del-Frente-Amplio-y-el-PI-se-aprobo-la-reforma-de-la-ley-organica-militar-uc724425
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in things that floated through here, Candian printer edition https://archive.is/CA9vk
mp_en_viaje: phf, aite, do you want somebody to pick you up at the airport or anything ?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922859 << afaik there's this "virtual-colo" thing, used to be 99 some years back, prolly decayed to 49 or something by now
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 17:54 asciilifeform: i admit i'm curious now, what kinda budget is it where <100 u.s/mo is 'high' . and where exactly girlattorney has been getting physical box colo that costs substantially less.
BingoBoingo: Ah, the manage through a panel thing where the folks selling swear you have a whole box to yourself.
mp_en_viaje: yup.
mp_en_viaje: "gotta compete with bezos" angle for the independents, strengthened by "customer so dumb, literally can not tell the difference"
BingoBoingo: End product is the Linode moral hazard magnet http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#selection-391.0-407.21
mp_en_viaje: justabout
asciilifeform: hrm i thought in 'linode' , operator succumbed to alcoholism
mp_en_viaje: no, linode was one of these [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-12#1922336][usgistani shits]. back in 2010 pretended to be a major player in hosting market.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-12 09:25 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623380 slash http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839537 lulz : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/N2UQY/?raw=true
mp_en_viaje: were taken out 2015-2016, whined about it copiously but ultimately ineffectually.
asciilifeform: a!
asciilifeform: possibly i was thinking about 'bitvps'
asciilifeform: re : honest 'virtual hosts' , and re asciilifeform's backlog of outputs to be published : i have a working kernel and userland for that mips emu . runs as buildroot, a la 'rotor' . will be featured in conveyor article.
asciilifeform: orig. author of 'cmips' btw was of 0 use, i wrote to him a while back and not long ago he answerd 'i lost hdd, lost errything'
asciilifeform: so ended up learning from 0 , how to port linux kernel to a never-seen 'machine'
asciilifeform: also in the process made sad discovery : previously asciilifeform always pronounced 'gcc 4.9 is usable' but! turns out some time b/w 4.8.1 and 4.9 , someone silently sabotaged support for classical mips1
asciilifeform: ditto in buildroot, some time (remains to be established) b/w 2013 ver and current, also nixed mips1
asciilifeform: gcc 4.9.x apparently WILL emit mips-r2-istic instrs no matter what flags are given.
asciilifeform: the arch illustrated by the sim is simple enuff that one could fit it in, e.g., even very modest fpga. which means that nao we have reproducible kernel, gcc, toolchain, etc. for machine that can be baked , if needed, on demand, in whatever qty.
asciilifeform: in re ffa : ch20 and most of 21 written. but all of it paused atm , making detailed map/plan.
asciilifeform: re that kernel -- someone gotta genesis a kernel. ( if no one has any constructive input re ~which~ one, then i will, and it will be somewhat arbitrary. ) atm that patch is a bad-old-style patch, rather than vpatch.
asciilifeform: fwiw it lies down cleanly on errything 3.x--present, afaik
asciilifeform will bbl, meat
mod6: Hey there, I've been pretty pinned down with some secular things in the past 10 days or so. Still catching up on logs+blogs here... saw the discussion earlier from girlattorney.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922592 << ah! ok, had me worried there for a moment.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:31 girlattorney: if i do a df -h on my box i have also 270-280GB occupied, not 8TB
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922542 << There is a patch that is not part of the main TRB vtree that does this, but it'll have to be patched in manually. And it most likely would need to be "re-ground" to apply cleanly ontop of your current pressed tree. However, if we can find a time where we could work together on it, I might be able to help you get that part going.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:12 girlattorney: and last thing that i found a little annoying: no exportprivkey in any form, just dealing with wallet.dat to import/export private keys
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922545 << I have found that if you -connect to a single (trusted TMSR~ node, for instnace http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html) node to get caught up -- it'll get within 5 blocks of the head of the chain, then it'll start going through all of the mempool stuff. Eventually, it should catch up; however, if one is in a hurry to get those last 5 blocks sync'd, you c
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:15 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922497 << 'stays back' as in always 3-4 behind what someone else's (who's?) node height ? or perma-wedged at height h ?
mod6: an issue the 'stop' command to bitcoind, wait until it closes properly, then start back up with -addnode for a handful of trusted nodes (see command in http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html in section 0x23 or at the very bottom 0x0D), which should sync you the rest of the way pretty quickly.
mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
mod6: One could connect a TRB node through a SSH tunnel (to a remote endpoint/host with a static IP) so you don't broadcast your IP.
mod6: This would basically involve one to set up ssh-key based authentication to the remote host, then creating the tunnel with something like this:
mod6: ssh -o ServerAliveInterval=5 -o ServerAliveCountMax=3 -i ~/.ssh/key_for_remote_host_id_rsa girlattorney@A.B.C.D -D 127.0.0.1:56565
mod6: Which will now allow you to tunnel over localhost port 56565...
mod6: Then when you start up TRB, you can do that like so:
mod6: LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -proxy=127.0.0.1:56565 -connect=<SOME_REPUBLICAN_IP> -lows -verifyall &
mod6: Then it should tunnel you through that remote host to connect to the bitcoin network and get blocks. Keep in mind that the example above is just that, and it also uses -connect, which is intended for connecting to a single node. You'll want to use -addnode for when connecting to more than one, and standard operation
mod6: Anyway, just throwing it out there as an alternative for you.
mod6: cheers, bbl.
asciilifeform: mod6: as i parsed it, she already is using tunnel.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in shitgnomery, '2013.11-rc3, Released November 26th, 2013 Fixes all over the tree. Architecture: Mark MIPS I, II, III and IV as deprecated.' ('buildroot' www)
asciilifeform: ftr : [https://archive.is/Xiaci][horse's mouth, where above.] aaand, soon after: [https://archive.is/xXyRi]['Mon Dec 1 19:06:32 UTC 2014 ... Remove the support for generating mips1/2/3/4 code since it has been deprecated for more than a year now. Also remove the unnecessary kludges in packages for it.']
asciilifeform: this wouldn't even be interesting ('hey use pre-castration snapshot') except that this snip pre-dates addition of musl to buildroot.
asciilifeform: near as i can guess, this was done in order to help kill [http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=loongson][loongson] sinomips.
asciilifeform: ... and mips in general. ( how do you suppose the ball-of-shit arm arch became dominant. to this day chinese pay tribute to britain for 'permission' to make arm. why ? at one time mips had patent, but expired in 2009 or so. and in march of '19 orig. mips verilog entirely opensoresd and made public... yet 0 fast mips on the market. guess why. )
asciilifeform: aaand gcc broke support around same time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922895 << recall that mp_en_viaje prescribed that the wallet oughta be sawed off into own proggy. imho this is entirely Right Thing. but no one has yet found the free hands with which to do, afaik
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:16 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922542 << There is a patch that is not part of the main TRB vtree that does this, but it'll have to be patched in manually. And it most likely would need to be "re-ground" to apply cleanly ontop of your current pressed tree. However, if we can find a time where we could work together on it, I might be able to help you get that part going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << imho it is foolish to take down a trb noad (i.e. allow it to fall behind) simply to copy the db. the best backup for a trb noad is a 2nd, 3rd,... node.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:25 mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
asciilifeform: realtime auto-backup, what better backup could anything ever have.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << i dunthink i've ever witnessed the corrupted db (tho i believe the folx who have.) possibly because i have never run node off anything other than always-on sinusoidal inverter ups, tho
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:25 mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
asciilifeform: for the smaller boxen (various arm, 'pcengine', similar) you can actually put a 12v lead-acid in line with the dc connector. and never suffer 'oops, mains flicker' db corrupt.
asciilifeform: mod6: re backups -- if one absolutely must make a hand-cranked copy of a node, the correct method is 'dumpblock' (on donor end) and 'eatblock' (on recipient) , dun require taking down either.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> aaand gcc broke support around same time. << And the hard opensourpush was made to push a crippled subset of SPARC as MIPS alternative around that time as well iirc
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/17/the-mirror-land-notes-on-graphics-for-eulora-iii/ << Ossa Sepia -- The Mirror Land (Notes on Graphics for Eulora, III)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922882 << reminds me of zimmerman fucktard, wrote to me "oh, lost pw to my orig key"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:38 asciilifeform: orig. author of 'cmips' btw was of 0 use, i wrote to him a while back and not long ago he answerd 'i lost hdd, lost errything'
mp_en_viaje: i'm like "fucker... why the fuck am i talking to you. are you even in show business ?!"
mp_en_viaje: i guess by now we all hold the key usage longivity records.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922884 << no shortage of mike hearns
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:39 asciilifeform: also in the process made sad discovery : previously asciilifeform always pronounced 'gcc 4.9 is usable' but! turns out some time b/w 4.8.1 and 4.9 , someone silently sabotaged support for classical mips1
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922927 << this stuff's pretty fun to read
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 10:19 feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/17/the-mirror-land-notes-on-graphics-for-eulora-iii/ << Ossa Sepia -- The Mirror Land (Notes on Graphics for Eulora, III)
diana_coman: possibly records for longevity anything really
diana_coman: heh, at least there are pretty pictures!
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922886 << this is such fucking recurrent bs... linker WILL emit same crap n omatter what sjlj thing you say to it ; and so on in this manner, "computing" in the sense of conway island wheel "cars", will spin regardless of how little kids turn and twist the "steering wheel"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:41 asciilifeform: gcc 4.9.x apparently WILL emit mips-r2-istic instrs no matter what flags are given.
mp_en_viaje: fucking insulting.
mp_en_viaje: in more uplifiting news, travel agent (this twentysomething "rocker" kid, kinda cute at that) used honest to got TERMINAL. none of those java clucker interfaces.
mp_en_viaje: yellow on black too, cga 4 eva
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922889 << i thought we were mostly using 2.6 - 2.9 sorta thing ? is everyone really on 3 branch ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 21:52 asciilifeform: re that kernel -- someone gotta genesis a kernel. ( if no one has any constructive input re ~which~ one, then i will, and it will be somewhat arbitrary. ) atm that patch is a bad-old-style patch, rather than vpatch.
spyked: iirc the rk (and everything on arm64) is on 4.x
spyked is using different kernel versions (but mostly 3.x) depending on the hardware.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i don't have anything running a 2.x, and haven't for some years ( ye olde 'wrt54g' was i think the last piece of iron i had which ran one )
asciilifeform: never found any reason to keep alive 2.6.x, hand-cut later kernel can typically sit down in same footprint even in small irons
asciilifeform: it was ~2.4~ that some folx are keeping alive, cuz it would fit, with trimming, into <1M. but if yer using 2.4.x you will need a contemporary userland.
asciilifeform: the beauty of synthetic 'iron' is that you can actually use just about any kernel, because there is no driver gnarl, you're already baking the drivers with own hands
asciilifeform: problem comes if you want to run non-contemporary proggies on it ( musl, gnat 4.9.x, etc . ) linus permitted abi to change.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922928 << ftr i had to disasm [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-08#1922071][his demo kernel] to find how the fuck he made it go with the simplistic mips timer. (why ? cuz linux porting docs -- lie !)
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 10:59 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922882 << reminds me of zimmerman fucktard, wrote to me "oh, lost pw to my orig key"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-08 17:28 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/tmsrmips-demo/testlinux.bin << run with.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922938 << ended up reading sections of sores from six diff gcc's...
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 11:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922886 << this is such fucking recurrent bs... linker WILL emit same crap n omatter what sjlj thing you say to it ; and so on in this manner, "computing" in the sense of conway island wheel "cars", will spin regardless of how little kids turn and twist the "steering wheel"
asciilifeform: re 'lunapark cars' -- the rationale for the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-08#1922070][mips experiment] is only half 'make honest vps for piz', other half is 'make reproducible linuxable iron'
a111: Logged on 2019-07-08 17:28 asciilifeform: meanwhile, asciilifeform while cooking war plan went and thought 'oughta clean up the june item for pre-pub'. and so, for the pleasure of the audience : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/tmsrmips-demo/tmsrmips.asm
asciilifeform: reproducible + fittable in head.
asciilifeform: the incident where i glued together rk pilot plant, to only ~then~ find out that nobody knows when the fuck proper gnat will actually build arm binaries w/ working threading, was instructive.
asciilifeform: 'iron babel' is imho good chunk of why linux is ball o'shit.
asciilifeform: when you have a ~defined~ iron, can lose 99% of the driverism crapolade.
asciilifeform: it dun even ~have~ to be mips, i picked it cuz it is the 'smallest' , moving-parts-wise, arch, for which there was existing gcc back-end.
asciilifeform: ( has a couple of other up-sides, e.g., 'endianism' only affects 3 instructions. so can be made selectable. )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922941 << afaik all the airlines still are using the ~physically same~ ibm mainframes as in 1990. ( simply, in 'civilized' world, the agents run 'terminal' proggy under microshit. whereas in orclands, ye olde ibm glass terminals. i saw one in e.g. argentina, in coupla places )
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 11:35 mp_en_viaje: in more uplifiting news, travel agent (this twentysomething "rocker" kid, kinda cute at that) used honest to got TERMINAL. none of those java clucker interfaces.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922942 << cga, by the standards of that world, is 'newfangled'. the glass tty's typically emulate ibm's 3270 -- a 1971 product... (or vt100, dec circa 1978!)
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 11:35 mp_en_viaje: yellow on black too, cga 4 eva
asciilifeform: single-phosphour crt, w/out shadow mask. hence razor-sharp ( and actually why bolix made the lispm console a b&w tube. was only way to get 1280x1024 in 1980s tube, with sharp text) . for this reason asciilifeform for many years had actual glass tty, when first started unixing, was 1 of the best junkyard finds ever imho
asciilifeform: and you can plug'em into virtually any box, from 'vax' to 'pogo', all you need is a serial port of whatever description.
asciilifeform: btw for thread-completeness -- the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919282]['weird-endian'] puzzle had simple answer : turns out the mips arch uses 'little' representation for the instructions per se, even on 'big' machine. the rationale for this, was that the instr. length is fixed, and jumps into unaligned addresses are forbidden (i.e. iron will not load an instruction from an addr that doesn't end with 2 (on 64bit -- 3) zero bi
asciilifeform: ts ), and so dun matter how the instrs are represented, from user's pov
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 16:43 asciilifeform: re: loose ends: fwiw asciilifeform did in fact add the final missing piece to [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-15#1918251][mipstron]. BUT! can't test with the [https://github.com/andrewchambers/cmips][dummkopf's orig linux image] as he... guess wat, his system had little-endian word accesses but big-endian byte read/write ! so his image in fact will boot on NO existing mips, nor any afaik other emulator.
asciilifeform: so apparently orig cmips d00d was not to blame for this oddity.
asciilifeform: ( fwiw the posted prototype has selectable endianism, albeit via an 'ifdefism' . thus far only tested with 'bigendian' kernel + userland tho. )
asciilifeform: if switch to 'little', you will get a roughly 0.01% speedup, all it'll do it get rid of the xor addr, 0x3 instr.
asciilifeform: ( in the 3 'byte r/w' instructions, nowhere else )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922914 << the schmucks are pretty shameless, it is true, but perhaps not many notches above trivial to reconstruct musl atop a proper (ie, without Peter Korsgaard &rest of retards)
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 00:57 asciilifeform: near as i can guess, this was done in order to help kill [http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=loongson][loongson] sinomips.
mp_en_viaje: buildroot
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i expect it'll be somewhat easier than the piece already done.
mp_en_viaje: possibru yea
asciilifeform: ( pretty gnarly, incidentally, had to debug crashed kernels using ~pc host~'s gdb, as there is no dedicated debuggism in the 12kB emu thing, it'd massively slow down execution just by existing)
asciilifeform: ( how ? e.g. 'b _end_cycle if $r9==0xdeadf00d' will stop when 'program counter' reg of mips is equal to 0xdeadf00d', then single-step to see what instr dispatched... then 'i r' and see regs. etc )
asciilifeform: ftr the last version of buildroot that does 100% Right Thing (i.e. built working kernel + userland) is 2013.08-rc1 .
asciilifeform: however it only provides 'uclibc' (and not musl, as prev. noted.)
asciilifeform: and 4.8.1 appears to be the last gcc w/ properly-behaving mips1 backend.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-15#1922470 - trinque, any chance of getting an answer on this?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-15 10:05 diana_coman: trinque: from what I see though the genesis.vpatch is a snapshot of /cuntoo/portage dir *only* which means that the actual tarballs with the code are not included anyway - so basically it will still fail to find them as soon as whatever URI in the ebuild doesn't host them anymore, what am I missing?
asciilifeform: kernels, however, no hard limit found yet, erry 3.x seems to work (with my patch)
diana_coman: !!seen trinque
deedbot: 2019/07/14 22:26:25 <trinque> I'm sure it does feel like a bit of gruntwork, and yet, later you will always have that curl, and it will always build.
asciilifeform: ( i expect one can use any whatsoever. my patch will only cleanly work with 2.6+, 2.4.x had very different api for deviceisms )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i suspect 2013 era kernels prolly last usable anyways.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rk and dulap 4.x , but heavily hand-cut. ( and i suspect can be cut further still . ) i dun operate kernels other than hand-cut.
mp_en_viaje: i dun think i actually moved to 3 branch.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: unrelated, i found 1 of your belarus tomb folx, comment in mod queue.
mp_en_viaje: tyvm!
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, updated!
asciilifeform: a++
mp_en_viaje: pretty cool story.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922915 << i dunno, ima take a stab in the dark here and [http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-4-unintended-consequences-of-seroquels-adjunct-to-antidepressants-indication-adnotated/#selection-255.234-269.3][guess] ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:01 asciilifeform: ... and mips in general. ( how do you suppose the ball-of-shit arm arch became dominant. to this day chinese pay tribute to britain for 'permission' to make arm. why ? at one time mips had patent, but expired in 2009 or so. and in march of '19 orig. mips verilog entirely opensoresd and made public... yet 0 fast mips on the market. guess why. )
asciilifeform: hrm, select dun display here
asciilifeform: (usually -- worx...)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922917 << for what it's worth im well irritated by all this out-and-out saboteur work of subversion, "oh, there's been this improper patch for years now that we keep deliberately maintaining improper and keep mentioning" nonsense.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:18 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922895 << recall that mp_en_viaje prescribed that the wallet oughta be sawed off into own proggy. imho this is entirely Right Thing. but no one has yet found the free hands with which to do, afaik
mp_en_viaje: get the fucking shit aligned or stop talking about it altogether. it's either abandoned, in which case, it is not mentioned ; or it is not abandoned, in which case it is fixed.
asciilifeform: i dun even have that patch on my hdd, turns out
mp_en_viaje: if it's not fixed and not abandoned you are raising flags of rebellipon, and i will cut heads.
asciilifeform: had nfi anyone used it
asciilifeform: mod6 when you wake up -- wtf was this ?
mp_en_viaje: more to the point : why ~the fuck~ would you want to spend your time "hand-helping" someone on "how to install an improper patch" in preference of, spending the same time making it a proper fucking patch, which has the side benefit that now you don't have to hold their hand.
mp_en_viaje: besides the "i utterly hate the republic and wish to fuck it over", there's no incentive for the stance available.
asciilifeform: esp. for safety-critical component that is wallet.
mp_en_viaje: for fucking anything.
asciilifeform did write some experimental patches, and they were marked with jolly roger, and certainly aint about to recommend'em to anyone who does not consciously know wtf he's doing, much less hand-hold to install..
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922922 << fortunately bdb will actually recover itself from ~most "omfg error" states it loudly reports upon unexpected shutdown. not 100%, but in general it can be hacked back into coherence without much trouble.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 01:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << i dunthink i've ever witnessed the corrupted db (tho i believe the folx who have.) possibly because i have never run node off anything other than always-on sinusoidal inverter ups, tho
mp_en_viaje: of course, this also requires familiarity with bdb, which is a lot like familiarity with baud modems.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: doesn't require hand-hexing, since trb actually stores all blox, simply needs re-walk trigger
asciilifeform: then rebuilds indices.
asciilifeform: (takes maybe 30min)
mp_en_viaje: pretty much
mp_en_viaje: it'll be so fucking nice when we finally manage to ditch that dependency tho
asciilifeform actually has the with-what engine, and it's blocked on [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266][that gnat finalization bug]
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922951 << yeah, that was a fucking problem.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 12:16 asciilifeform: problem comes if you want to run non-contemporary proggies on it ( musl, gnat 4.9.x, etc . ) linus permitted abi to change.
mp_en_viaje: then again, i can not name any program published after... uh i dunno, 2005 or so that i actually fucking use. a large part of the advantage in dealing with these idiots is still [http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/][ye same old] : nobody needs aything they "did" for anything. much like i have no use for "all the advances" in bitcoin (what, segwit ? bwahahaha) i also don't have any use for "all th
mp_en_viaje: e advances" in [http://trilema.com/2019/the-state-of-the-vidya-address/][gaming] and the web is STILL better seen through lynx than through firecrash/chromeburn. what, i lose out on loading github ? [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914174][linkedin] ? lordy.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 21:23 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914135 << bahahahahaha! and for extra lulz, phuctor was 'replaced' in <2hrs -- whereas this took, wat was it, 6mo ?
mp_en_viaje: "but mp, if you don't get latest chromed piss you can't connect to appsites like fetlife". [http://trilema.com/2015/fetlife-the-meat-market/][like hell] i can't! i wouldn't fucking use their idiotic interface to interact with their own backend/userbase/wife-and-daugther if they fucking paid me anyways.
mp_en_viaje: basically, a flat rejection of the userland past 10 years or so is the ~exact equivalent of not talking to indians in call centers on the phone. "i'll just talk to the manager, get lost paki."
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: imho after working mipstron, whoever actually needs heathenware for whatever [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-04#1916965][experiment], can house it in a mipsjail and be done with it.
a111: Logged on 2019-06-04 00:51 asciilifeform: incidentally, i generate these by machine, and it takes about 3sec per. would have put it as a [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-27#1730023][net-connected hopper thing] aeons ago, BUT it of course uses a heathen render (there are no 'demonstrably electrically correct' pdf eaters, and i dun expect one to exist) and suffers from [https://archive.is/f9hNX][the obvious problem]
mp_en_viaje: kinda what all this experience seems to be converging towards.
asciilifeform: the current kernel is <2MB. and prolly trimmable further. boot to shell in 3sec or so.
mp_en_viaje: 1. most of the "need" and "use" you perceive is entirely imaginary, resulting from the intersection of your WSOD and their marketing efforts and 2. most of the actual utility comes from older stuff in the first place, and will be delivered better by resurected older stuff than by the newer stuff.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i suspect this hypothesis extends just the same to iron.
mp_en_viaje: possibly so ; tho we yet lack the experimental buildup to say.
asciilifeform: properly-trimmed linux userland , i suspect , would run entirely usably in 'tmsr mips'-on-ice40.
mp_en_viaje: but surely all metaconsiderations & heuristics point that way
asciilifeform: that 4ghz clock of 'modern' pc, is burned up mostly on liquishit.
mp_en_viaje: this is not merely true, but fractally fucking true. consider the actual, lived experience of yours truly, who ended up buying that motorcycle of a 5lb vid card and that mega screen etc to... in the end ... play heroes3 on it ?
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: the very same
asciilifeform: i may have mentioned, built exactly similar 'motorcycle' 2y ago, and to same result.
mp_en_viaje: then alf is like "but mp... you don't need accelerator card for those" and mp is like... ikr.
mp_en_viaje: i didn't even start with it ; the actual history as it unfurled is fucking emblematic. 1 "oh, steamos ?" 2. nowait, no os, idiots ; 3. ahahaha, THEY HAVE NO GAMES, how can they survive 4. omfg bbq NOBODY DOES HAVE ANY
mp_en_viaje: and so on
mp_en_viaje: the entire collection of "video games" output 2009-2019 can command HALF the play hours off your time that ANY ONE TITLE of 2000-2009 can command
mp_en_viaje: however, if you sit down to play gothic, or kb or any fucking one thing it'll be time spent playing, full screen, immersed
asciilifeform: i can't even think of ~one~ post-'09 title i liked, other than 'portal'
mp_en_viaje: and if you sit down to play post-apocalypse crapola it'll be time spent shifting through the zombie bin, omg this sucks omg wtf is this shit etc
asciilifeform: ('portal' is largely why 'valve co.' is even a thing to begin with )
mp_en_viaje: i personally enjoy much more buying a pair of shoes / acquiring a new whore / eating a meal than touching five thousand slimy, ugly and unpleasant "shoes" "whores" "meals" that fucking aren't.
mp_en_viaje: dunno, maybe it's just me.
mp_en_viaje: i think it must be just me, because i see the hordes of touchers everywhere.
mp_en_viaje: but back to the issue : i suspect all things any one actually wants will be easier and readylier had by taking an older version and cutting it down to sit on tmsr computing environment than by trying to run it on the campbell-soupcan flavour of windows, be it "foss"/"gnu"/"linux"/adobe/oracle/apple/whatever, they;re all windowses
mp_en_viaje: because the sort of idiot involved is born with a spongiform brain of microshit.
asciilifeform: [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-561.275-561.495][oblig naggum].
asciilifeform: ( re x's that aint x )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it still blows my mind how i keep coming to agree with this man notwithstanding i never seem to like him very much
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, this is actually gold standard for correctness. and if i find myself ~liking~ + agreeing, then suspicious, 'is argument really solid'
mp_en_viaje: it's like being back in school, and teacher saying stupid dumb shit and you sitting down to figure it out and annoyingly discover it's merely counterintuitive, but absolutely not dumb shit.
mp_en_viaje: then again i suppose that's what college even fucking is in the first place.
asciilifeform: was, at any rate.
mp_en_viaje: well, yeah, back when sex was sex and rape was rape and food food and etcetera, college also was college.
asciilifeform raged, frothed, when 1st read naggum. sorta like when later 1st read mp_en_viaje , and so on
asciilifeform: ... then ate whole archive.
asciilifeform: still not eaten all of mp_en_viaje's tho, i'm slow in ro. maybe will live long enuff, eat.
asciilifeform: mine fwiw is 100x+ smaller. but iirc the only fella who admitted to eating all of it, was gabriel_laddel, and he went mad.
asciilifeform: ( or, perhaps ate ~after~ went mad ? no one will know )
asciilifeform brb:teatime.
mp_en_viaje: hahaha
mp_en_viaje: i'm waiting for you to die, in any case. then will loper-os.org. adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922965 << this wasn't the original hardware ; merely emulated on contemporary hardware. dood had a terminal open on his modern pc
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 12:31 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922941 << afaik all the airlines still are using the ~physically same~ ibm mainframes as in 1990. ( simply, in 'civilized' world, the agents run 'terminal' proggy under microshit. whereas in orclands, ye olde ibm glass terminals. i saw one in e.g. argentina, in coupla places )
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923008 << My apologies here. It was ill conceived to mention it at all.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 13:52 mp_en_viaje: get the fucking shit aligned or stop talking about it altogether. it's either abandoned, in which case, it is not mentioned ; or it is not abandoned, in which case it is fixed.
mp_en_viaje: maybe just make it a patch ? or whatever, i get that you mean well, but sometimes you manage to always get your fingers caught under this sort of furniture.
mp_en_viaje: what's on your workbench these days anyways ?
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923012 << It's this old thing: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-November/000241.html
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 13:53 asciilifeform: mod6 when you wake up -- wtf was this ?
mod6: mp_en_viaje: Yeah, have good intent, wanting to be helpful. However, I need to think through some of these things a bit better. Exercise more restraint and caution on such things.
mod6: Recently, on workbench, I've been trying to build up TRB on cuntoo; and most recently (last month) dipping my toe into creating ebuilds.
mod6: I created one for ave1s musltronic tools (which won't fit the bill yet, because of circular dep. of GNAT), one for diana_coman's Vtools (which may not fit the bill 100% either, yet), and one for TRB.
mod6: But overall the focus has been to put forth directed effort into getting us over to cuntoo so we can stop using all of the buildroot things, and supporting debian, et. al.
mod6: The idea being, once we're moved over to cuntoo, using keccak vtools & a keccak trb vtree, then the Foundation can go back to discussion of various patches that have been waiting in the lobby for some time.
mod6: (We placed a halt on adding non-keccak vpatches last year.)
mod6: (Also, should mention, I did see that diana_coman is working on her own ebuild, which is awesome, will most def. supersede what I was tinkering with last month.)
diana_coman: mod6: mine so far would be "curl" alone so perfectly fine alongside yours since you say you are doing much heavier lifting there
mod6: Hi diana_coman! Let me post what I did (simply as a discussion point - example), for those whom are following along: http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo/test/ebuilds/starter_v-99993.ebuild
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923053 - funnily enough not even *just* the playing; kid pleaded and asked so in the end got him through ~20 lines of Ada doing a little "guess the number" text-game and he's more hooked to mess around with it than with heroes because obv "can look inside"
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:16 mp_en_viaje: however, if you sit down to play gothic, or kb or any fucking one thing it'll be time spent playing, full screen, immersed
diana_coman: ah, yours is a proper ebuild mod6 but shouldn't it notify of dependency on gnat i.e. it should basically install that one too first?
diana_coman: at any rate, the current discussion is re including the source in the vpatch and being done with it since otherwise the ebuild by itself is no guarantee that "it'll always be there"
mp_en_viaje: mod6, didn't run into diana_coman 's cuntoo genesis problem then ?
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: his is just the ebuild aka no sources; the ebuild downloads the source from my site so in this sense yes, it'll always be there
diana_coman: but this reduces to "have republican repo2
diana_coman: "
mp_en_viaje: why do it like this tho
mod6: Yes, it ~should~ depend on the musltronic_tools ebuild, it does need more testing though to ensure I have the proper useage of RDEPEND. Yeah, I did see the earlier discussion of including the source; I agree with that,
diana_coman: I'm waiting on trinque to find out really.
mp_en_viaje: we need to stress the vtree toolchain into sufficiency anyway.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the "include source in vpatch" is not merely re dependency, it's also "how do i meaningfully patch against absent code ?" and even "how the fuck am i supposed to display this ??"
mp_en_viaje: ie, non vpatched material is not opened in any sense.
mod6: was thinking that perhaps you were headed in that direction.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: had same thought re that kernel patch -- wtf to do with it, it aint a vpatch, nao need genesis of kernel, so then which, etc
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: quite.
mod6 re-reads
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, myeah. but the "nao which" must be answered.
mp_en_viaje: and, as imo republican experience has well shown any and all, way the fuck better a firm answer, even if turns out mistaken and has to be chanced, than no answer.
mp_en_viaje: changed*
asciilifeform: absolutely must, there's no other way to properly civilize it
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: currently thinking, oughta genesis'em together. ( and at same time snip out errything from kernel that aint relevant to the sim-arch. ) and ~then~ if someone thinks he absolutely must sit down said kernel on some other irons , ~he~ can then put back the necessary routines.
asciilifeform: ( 'them' being tmsr-mips-kernel and tmsrmips.asm )
asciilifeform: in the interest of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919467 .
a111: Logged on 2019-06-22 21:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i described this in the orig ifdefism thread. the solution is to stop pretending that coad worx on boxen where no one in living memory had ever tested it and signed.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, conceivably.
mp_en_viaje: in any case anything is better than nothing.
asciilifeform: the other variant is to do a la trb, genesis e.g. 3.70.16 (arbitrary, happens to be what i had around during 1st test) and ~then~ cut, a la trb. but it is gargantuan , would make trb genesis look microscopic in comparison, viewing the genesis patch in e.g. phf's viewer will prolly crash most www browser..
asciilifeform: err, 3.16.70
asciilifeform: will add, all of this doesn't even close the circle unless also genesis gcc.
mp_en_viaje: so we know we need to fix browser / see which work etc
mp_en_viaje: there is NO WAY AROUND THIS
mp_en_viaje: we will not be designing buildings by the hammers available.
asciilifeform: granted wwwtron really oughta be able to display a physical-ram-sized ball o'yard w/out crashing
asciilifeform: separate q is whether such a thing can be considered 'human-readable' tho.
asciilifeform: *yarn
asciilifeform: in principle 'anything possible' ; recall german gun 'bertha', 'dora', etc. series. 3000 men, 400 camp whores, however many technicians, 4 railroad tracks, battalion of railroad engineers to lay track in front of it so can move... but in what sense is 'field' artillery.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-7-things-to-expect-in-our-brave-new-world-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 7 Things To Expect In Our Brave New World. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923077 << a+++ -- if could, would read!
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:30 mp_en_viaje: i'm waiting for you to die, in any case. then will loper-os.org. adnotated.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923078 << fwiw good % of the 'working moving parts' of usa work on these. e.g. certain insurance co's, other items personally witnessed. 'where is the proggy' 'right here, runs vt100 emu, connects to ibm360 downstairs'
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:36 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1922965 << this wasn't the original hardware ; merely emulated on contemporary hardware. dood had a terminal open on his modern pc
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923088 << the circular situation of gnat , where 'need gnat to build gnat', is the third reason for the mips approach -- arch with 100 fixed-length instructions, simplify the eventual rewriting of backend so can ditch gcc dep.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 14:56 mod6: I created one for ave1s musltronic tools (which won't fit the bill yet, because of circular dep. of GNAT), one for diana_coman's Vtools (which may not fit the bill 100% either, yet), and one for TRB.
asciilifeform: incidentally, seems like asciilifeform is not the 1st or the 100th to think of this : turned up that in ru, from early 2000s, and entirely unrelated to the hyped 'elbrus' & co, they've been making rad-hard realtime box 'baget' on mips1.
asciilifeform: interesting architectural approach, also, 2 cpu, 1 runs a unixlike, the other -- a handwritten asm thing that actually talks to the iron, and presents self as 'iron' to the unixturd
diana_coman imagines asciilifeform-ghost coming back purely to read the adnotated loper-os.org
asciilifeform: sorta like in tmsrmips.asm ...
asciilifeform: diana_coman: would if could!
asciilifeform: who wouldn't.
asciilifeform: e.g. old man naggum -- evidently moar 'alive' nao than when alive..
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923130 << thing is, until we put the cowhide on the table, we don't really know wtf is even wanted or needed
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:03 asciilifeform: separate q is whether such a thing can be considered 'human-readable' tho.
mp_en_viaje: shoe-sized table works for well understood processes, and even there kinda...
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923132 << you mean like the paris gun ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:06 asciilifeform: in principle 'anything possible' ; recall german gun 'bertha', 'dora', etc. series. 3000 men, 400 camp whores, however many technicians, 4 railroad tracks, battalion of railroad engineers to lay track in front of it so can move... but in what sense is 'field' artillery.
mp_en_viaje: iirc big bertha were just tracked mortars, not even that big, <10ton
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: paris. and sevastopol. an' possibly elsewhere
mp_en_viaje: aha
asciilifeform: !#s schwerer gustav
a111: 3 results for "schwerer gustav", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=schwerer%20gustav
asciilifeform: oh ha.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923132 << 400 whores seems like a bit much for only 3000 men
a111: Logged on 2019-07-17 16:06 asciilifeform: in principle 'anything possible' ; recall german gun 'bertha', 'dora', etc. series. 3000 men, 400 camp whores, however many technicians, 4 railroad tracks, battalion of railroad engineers to lay track in front of it so can move... but in what sense is 'field' artillery.
bvt: hello. I will try to finish the ffa work from the workplan over next two days. i had some meatspace interference that stole a few work hours.
bvt: re korzhen, his son's www has english version of the story http://www.korzhan.art/biography.html
asciilifeform: bvt: found it earlier, comment is currently in mp_en_viaje's modqueue
mp_en_viaje: no ?
mp_en_viaje: it was published hours ago!
asciilifeform: oh ha my cache -- old
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2019/%d0%a3%d1%81%d1%85%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%bd%d1%96%d1%8f-%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%b3%d1%96%d0%bb%d0%ba%d1%96-%d0%9c%d0%b0%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%be%d1%9e%d1%81%d0%ba%d1%96-%d0%9c%d1%96%d0%bd%d1%81%d0%ba-aka-the-eastern-cem/#comment-129893 << ther.
BingoBoingo: I think I've found peak self important Argentine derpery: https://archive.is/wRbNu 1. Expecting Uruguay to act agaisnt a fishing vessel Argentina doesn't like because Argentina's charges against the boat are "public knowledge" though entirely domestic to Argentina. 2. Sticking to the Malvinas and trying to insist Uruguay derp with them over some British sheep islands not named New Zealand.
BingoBoingo: "Que las relaciones entre el gobierno de ocupación de las Islas Malvinas y Uruguay son fluidas y con un importante intercambio comercial en materia pesquera es conocido por todos. Incluso empresarios y funcionarios británicos se han referido a los uruguayos como sus socios estratégicos. Pero hasta ahora, nunca un funcionario del gobierno uruguayo se había referido a las islas como territorio inglés."
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/more-server-bmc-woes-today-lenovo-and-gigabyte/ << Qntra -- More Server BMC Woes: Today Lenovo And Gigabyte
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-02#1846900][envirowhinerism] noose : asciilifeform uncrated a 'window' type air conditioner to help in torture room; and found 1) cost ~2x than last time bought one 2) plastered with 'explosion hazard' warnings. apparently europistan banned ~all~ freons, new-type, old type, and as result EVERYONE gets cooling compressors fulla... butane. 3) internal insulation is... styrofoam. the white,
asciilifeform: brittle kind, like mcfood containers.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-02 16:51 asciilifeform: it isn't any moar outrageous than the butane-filled refrigerator BingoBoingo found himself with
BingoBoingo: Well, isobutane is a good refrigerant.
BingoBoingo: The styrofoam bit sucks though
asciilifeform: good, i suppose, until lit.
BingoBoingo: depends on the circumstances of the lighting
asciilifeform: oh and lol , apparently not butane, but a flammable fluorocarbon (!), decomposes into hf when burn
asciilifeform: [https://archive.is/aWW04][see also this horror] re subj.
BingoBoingo: LOL, ended up with worse than my isobutane
asciilifeform: interestingly, the use of flammable refrigerants was specifically banned in building codes. errywhere. holdover from early 1900s. today -- amended, and... mandatory
asciilifeform: 'envirowhinerism trifecta : expensive, shoddy, deadly'(tm)(r)(uncle al)

2019-6-30 | 2019-8-1