a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 23:20 mircea_popescu: so no "tranzitie" bullshit whatsoever : we're gonna have to cut all the spurious "industry" in name only, and cut all the fucktards who depend of it. and IT WAS DONE. and it was done as hard and fast as it ~could~ be done, witness the whole "miners invading capital" lulz during radu vasile.
mircea_popescu: what is now alro was one of the largest bauxite processing plants in europe. it cost ~over 8k ~~~1980~~~ usd to make a ton of aluminum there, and this at romania's EXTREMELY CHEAP hydro power rates.
mircea_popescu: you're thinking of the survivors. romania had ~9x more industry than you can summon to mind.
asciilifeform: in fact, genius shoemaker pissed right into the mouth of the 'comcon' sanctions, bought semiconductor fab line straight from ti
mircea_popescu: gotta start doing ~something~ besides saying "fuckyou" to parents, is the fundamental lesson of all adolescence.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10. << One of the bigger cleaning product consortiums recently pulled production out of Uruguay. Easier to ship packaged retail ready from Mexico than water down and bottle in the labor environment here.
asciilifeform: per logic of the 'spherical horse' market(tm)(r) mircea_popescu is 100% correct. but the 'market' aint one when there's derps printing money, it's simply a larger sovok
asciilifeform: that decided it has ~0 use for the little sovok it ate
mircea_popescu: and the low skill, low productivity, worthless workforce ain't no fucking joke, either. you can say "ceausescu made wrong call, bet on oil, prices changed, he lost". the THING however is, ceausescu made bet in 66, plans called for plants to be done by 69, they were done by 74.
mircea_popescu: can just as well say "far seeing leader sabotaged by inept idiocy of workers"
mircea_popescu: had they actually been done on fucking time, they might've paid for themselves as the plans planned.
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall a thread where mircea_popescu explained 'stupid wants to go and be with other stupid'. i.e. buncha derps in ro considered 'freedom' to be 'go shopping in vienna'
mircea_popescu: (and this is why closed borders is a very fucktarded policy -- you obviously WANT to let the idiots out. the only problem commies encountered was that if they opened the borders, the idiots'd have ~stayed~. which is already indicative of the breakage.)
mircea_popescu: so no, while in theory appealing, this theoretical autarky is not at all how things worked in the practice we're discussing. they had unclosed cycles galore, and there had to be a solution, AND they were in no measure to produce the solution.
mircea_popescu: there's a ~reason~ miami "pressures" latin ameritards, but period "london" did not in the slightest impress 1880s chinese.
mircea_popescu: china was net silver importer by the megatonne, for this exact reason, "what fucking miami, keks"
asciilifeform: imho the interesting detail re 1989 was that ~these~ particular 'settlers' were already descended to approx the amerind stage, and sold ~entirely hollow beads.
mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
mircea_popescu: in retrospect, they weren't even lying, you should see them, 100% in the shit.
mircea_popescu: lest their cunts fly off or who knows what's going on in the noggin.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform had entirely same 'eyes melt' experience when went to ameri-foodstore for 1st coupla times. today i spend good money at shop that loox exactly like what well-stocked one in sovok did in 1985. and not in 'dazzling variety' where cornsyrupinerrything.
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's some kind of psychological comfort somewhere. the same kind of femherd cowsies keep pestering my slaves about how "they gotta get jeans" as pester them about "omg your purse is open"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have all sortsa thing, for use in whoring to keep lights on.
mircea_popescu: (indistinctly, same applies to teh bois. in fact, they have it worse, lotta difficulty involved in securing a cunt you know is there but can't even see)
asciilifeform: the bois will buy even less tangible brooklyn bridges, e.g. maffs phd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'femherd pester', iirc you had a piece where 'see, like chicken, they gotta send SYN, get ACK, coo-coo, how else to know that fox hasn't yet eaten'
mircea_popescu: but no, i dun own any jeans. actually, hit up the local specialist in gentleman items (run by this very nice old lady, whom, when she dies, that is IT for dressing in costa rica). two suits, four extra pairs of pants, four shirts, a tie, a dozen socks and a pair of pijamas. all natural fiber, look fetching on me too. took like a fucking hour, and a brick of cash, but honestly i can't think of a way i could have spent the hour
mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
asciilifeform as sits here, meanwhile pet attempts to replicate ro/sovok cake with ameri-findable ingredients
asciilifeform: ^ verily it's quite like asciilifeform's 'i'ma make a bolix', in ways
mircea_popescu: i hope she gets to die with it ; honestly other than me the only other customers are pretentious middle aged women buying 20 bux worth of presents with credit cards and the occasional ranchero getting a funeral suit or w/e.
asciilifeform: i watched repeatedly with dropped jaw as folx with no shortage of moola ate ameri-cheese, entirely voluntarily, and regularly
mircea_popescu: that's not even it. whole bunch of tards, "oh, this bottle of champagne is great, $5000". as a factual matter no bottle of fizzy is genuinely worth that much. not anything you'd drink, anyway. what';s worse, if i pour that and random bottom shelf stuff they couldn't tell them apart. half the time can't tell bicarb fizz apart.
asciilifeform: picture e.g. cat who prefers that dried liquishit the ameritards feed the poor animals, to tuna
asciilifeform: ( y'know, ~that~ hat, the 'bolix' hat, from old mircea_popescu piece , 'last loom broke' )
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is a great advantage to me (while the fuel lasts, i guess). i'm always the only one in the shop, everyone's always got all the time in the world, "we love to serve", the taylor doesn't even need to measure me because ~he remembers~.
mircea_popescu: because how wouldn't he even, not like he's beseiged by alternative measures.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno i wanna wear a tophat. imo i'm not quite pearshaped enough for it as of yet.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu single-handedly feeds the tailor tho, situation moar dire than i thought
asciilifeform: i thought there were at least a coupla platoons' worth of mircea_popescus in mircea_popescustan
mircea_popescu: i never saw anyone else there, besides as i said, 40yo middle class wife buying a present or else a ranchero dood (looking just like maduro, most of the time in canadian workshirt and jeans) buying "occasion"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they are, they're well hidden. let alone i never ran into one -- wouldn't you expect they'd proposition one of my cunts at some point ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: he took iirc the 2 mo., as incidentally described by the 'ru argentina' d00d i linked to last mo. he wrote that ~100% of ru expats go from 'i want to be buried in recoleta' to 'burn it all' in ~2mo.
BingoBoingo: So, how is orc supposed to investigate Miama when they have at most two weeks?
mircea_popescu: (and speaking of "luxury", romania's ex-minister woman that the hubbub was about recently, "Rumanas vivían entre lujos" lived in a pretty shitty apt in rohrmoser, which is a sort of... auburndale, i guess ?
BingoBoingo: I don't think you've seen the crap Latinos eat when left to own devices
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 asciilifeform: asciilifeform had entirely same 'eyes melt' experience when went to ameri-foodstore for 1st coupla times. today i spend good money at shop that loox exactly like what well-stocked one in sovok did in 1985. and not in 'dazzling variety' where cornsyrupinerrything.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> somehow, have working taste buds, or seem to << The Peruana is much better at composing flavors into food than I am, but... her sense of smell just might be weaker than mine
asciilifeform: odd, for a chix, they're supposed to have good nose
BingoBoingo: Here it's torta frita. I'd go for some pork rinds. Like in old country
mircea_popescu: in any case, the one thing contemporary tard is trained for, is to NOT make decisions and NOT decide investments.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 23:42 mircea_popescu: ault. this is what the mass-romanian is and does, nobody is needed to "do it to him", much like nobody's needed to drag shit into lelea saveta's cunt. she does it, by herself, every time she wipes.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in today's installment of "how to fuck over internet scholars" : take the chunk popper attributes to kant ("I do not wish to hide the fact that I can only look with repugnance . . upon the puffed-up pretentiousness of all these volumes filled with wisdom, such as are fashionable nowadays. For I am fully satisfied that . . the accepted methods must endlessly increase these follies and blunders, and that even the com
mircea_popescu: plete annihilation of all these fanciful achievements could not possibly be as harmful as this fictitious science with its accursed fertility.") and have them source teh original german.
mircea_popescu: whole internet fulla references to a purely imaginary object, that ironically enough discusses... ITSELF.
mircea_popescu: then they wonder why sokal had ~0 measurable impact. duh.
mircea_popescu: was it the prolegomene ? no such wonder there. was it then the kritik, ~only book anyone can even name anyway ? mnope. WHAT COULD IT BE!!!
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902641 -> "noi ne facem ca muncim, ei se fac ca ne platesc" (we pretend we work, they pretend they pay us); so I'd say it was more the case that there were a few actually working and all the rest being clever; just like now in a different socialism.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:00 mircea_popescu: yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902694 -> I always thought jeans were cowboy stuff, not miner; and at least initially part of the "waiting for the americans" i.e. a tribute to an imagined greatness; how it morphed afterwards into an uniform I have no idea.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:31 mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
diana_coman: ftr in my experience it's not only a lack of practical experience but literally, they have no real idea re what they are supposedly selling, it's all the same to them, what.
mircea_popescu: in ACTUAL FACT, romanian worker of the 80s got ~120% the value of his labour, by an over-welfarist government, wrote himself hallucinated options to consider this "insufficient" to an entirely ridiculous standard, and proceeded from there with a web of lies.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, instead of saying "the party is ~exactly truthful~ in what we ~falsely~ call propaganda, and we are making here WAY the fuck more than we could anywhere else, and without it we'd be exactly like zaire", they came up with bs.
mircea_popescu: so no, it's not "ei se X, noi ne Y". it's very much the other way around : noi ne Z (=ne cacam pe noi), ei fac ce pot sa se prefaca ca de fapt nu.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, note that I worded it precisely in *that* order, starting with "noi ne" . I don't know what/who you are arguing there, lol.
mircea_popescu: well, not you, lol. just tryina put the implicit explicitly for the innocent reader.
mircea_popescu: the important part, to my eyes, is to underscore that the "being clever" was NOT, as the "clever" in question silently ie implicitly misrepresent, a case of "choice", ie, "seeing how little i get paid i react thusly". the "clever" in question was very much what such "clever" ever is : "seeing what a fucktard i am, this is what i could pretend is '''really''' going on to not have to confront it".
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 09:56 spyked: diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything"; which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told)
mircea_popescu: fuck, the exact process is visible both among a subset of trilema commenters during the romanian years and superset of other-romanian-bloggers, then as now.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I'm quite sure it's clearly visible in today's western socialism too.
diana_coman: not as if it's specific romanian this, sadly.
mircea_popescu: re the "cowboy stuff" : all the us "wild west" stuff is a cheap and quick daghuerotype after spanish traditions of the time. this is visible if one studies say the horse working (this is a term of art) as practiced in spanish-speaking lands comparatively to english-speaking lands. everything is visibly a model to scale, and to this day the cultural overwhelm of spanish lands in all fields related is overwhelming.
mircea_popescu: in ~this sense~ us cowboy started wearing ~a little~ denim as the west states textile industry developped. originally it was miner garb. then it was extended to make tent sheet for army. THEN it was taken by cowboy to replace the much more expensive LEATHER the spanish were wearing.
mircea_popescu: this said, the french (and somewhat italian, hence all their lolwesterns) 50s/60s "wild west" fixation did in fact produce an abstract (and not much related to any reality) euro-cowboy, sure.
asciilifeform: ddr also filmed surprisingly large pile of lulwesterns ('easterns' to aficionados)
mircea_popescu: aha. and french period mags for kids are fulla "indian-sympathy" pieces (the french had a very unique take to the gibbering nations among colonial powers, they wanted to make america a sorta africa, "continue traditions undisturbed")
mircea_popescu: who's to say it wouldn't have been better, tbh. note how the "equal to capitol" german colony they ended up ~is very much reverting~. they got the matriarchy back, they got the stupid-lazy-itsok back, hard to distinguish today's "american" from yesterday's cherokee.
asciilifeform: i'd like to request 5min of mircea_popescu wearing papal regalia . ch17 ffa , as perhaps was clear from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902386 , has a control-transfer stack ( for loops & subroutines . ) it, like errything else, is nonheapistic, therefore has a fixed size. currently set to 256. this constant gotta be nailed down. is 256 enuff? too small? too big ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
asciilifeform: this means you can have e.g. 256 nested loops, 256 levels of subroutine calling subroutine, etc
mircea_popescu: right, 256 bytes aka 1024 octets on 32 bit machines and 2048 octets in 64 bit machines.
asciilifeform: ( ffa does not deal directly in octets , the smallest access to storage is in unit of bus width. hence endianism-free )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines.
asciilifeform: recursion is incidentally prohibited, so there aint much point imho in gigantic controlstack
asciilifeform: orig. i had it set to 8, but decided that's unjustifiably spartan
asciilifeform: at one time i was considering to make it adjustable on cmdline, but already have 4 params the user must give ( fz bitness, datastack height, max 'life' , and tapespace len ) and that's already much, calculating exact footprint for given invocation already requires thought
asciilifeform: ( for n00bs/readers -- ffa has fully deterministic memory footprint, by design, and 100% of what it'll use, lives on the stack, e.g. under unixlikes, setbrk() is not invoked )
asciilifeform: anyway if neither mircea_popescu nor anyone else files an objection today, it'll be 256 ( at least for the next few chapters ) .
asciilifeform: btw , crib sheet for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902386 -- ':' puts current position on control stack; ',' pops a fz from datastack , a tape pos from controlstack, and if the fz was nonzero, control is transferred to the popped pos. ';' simply pops the next pos from controlstack.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
mircea_popescu: speakinbg of which, anyone remember the set of "anti-bitcoin" tards grouped around usg.pantsuit office over at "something awful" going about talking of "bit-coin" as fucking if that did something ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps time to start talking of copy-right and demo-cracy etc.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, since hydro was mentioned yest : one of the largest hydro development in europe is the "iron gates" complex, partnership between romania and serbia, taking advantage of danube.
mircea_popescu: the romanian side produces ~5.2 TWh per year. the serbian side, ~5.7 TWh.
mircea_popescu: whence the difference ? they're halves, aren't they ? here's the lulz : romania bought newer, nominally more efficient generating equipment.
mircea_popescu: it is down so much, overal productivity is nevertheless 10% lower.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 13:20 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902744 -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* ; esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work.
BingoBoingo: Well someone who wants a reich is easy to put on a USG.lolcow watchlist. Someone who identifies Obama as an animal risks getting sympathy from the folks employed reading USG watchlists.
BingoBoingo: Policeman White see fellow on Nazi watchlist "I've killed those fuckers in xBawks game", Policeman Brown sees fellow on Obama is an animal watchlist "I ought to buy the man a beer and compare notes"
mircea_popescu always answers comments (so will refrain from pointing this out on case by case basis) as well as sees new comments via feedbot rss (so there';s nothing gained by pointing one out to him)
mircea_popescu: in other obscura : meanwhile i located the clou of the issue. in april 1960, at cluj, gh gh dej stated the party recognizes the right of writers to express themselves "în limbajul epocii noastre" ("in the language of our times"). WHOLE fucking dispute is EXACTLY over whether the ro pantsuits get to the-dreamers or don't get to the-dreamers ; and protestations of unawareness and "vhs america" are suddewnly extrehehehehemely w
asciilifeform: e.g. 'The first in San Francisco was co-hosted by CDC member Adam O’Donnell, an entrepreneur and a security engineer at Cisco Systems, and Alex Stamos, then the chief security officer at Facebook ... Chris Wysopal, a L0pht veteran who founded tech company Veracode ... Seattle fundraiser for the Senate race ... ' etc
a111: Logged on 2014-08-31 06:24 asciilifeform: i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie.
mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.
trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm curious whether you're aware of Julian Jaynes. I'm not in a position to assign credit for who first said self-aware consciousness might not come naturally to humans, absent learning it from a parent at a critical age.
trinque: whoever said it first, the hypothesis rings true, that consciousness is an arrangement of language in the skull which is by no means human birthright.
BingoBoingo: I remember being 3 or 4 in the grocery store produce section and being struck with the awareness that my awareness is stuck in my head alone. That I couldn't bounce my awareness from head to head. There were some very Bush I era fat people and I very much wanted to will them stop eating for a few months.