mod6: For instance, let us use a scenario such as: asciilifeform puts in X BTC, mod6 matches alf's X BTC (where X <= 5), can this be created as stock then? In this scenario 500`000 shares would be assigned to alf & mod6 alike. In the circumstance I would put in (10 - X) more BTC, this could be assigned to me as "convertable bonds". I've been revisiting our conversation from a while back on the Pricing of Capita
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 18:01 ben_vulpes: for a convertible note like that, how'd you go about setting the conversion rate? lots of yelling?
mod6: This is something that would be figured out at some later date (the conversion rate). However, can Pizarro issue bonds just to me? Or does there need to be a tranche of them offered otherwise?
ben_vulpes: i'd prefer to have a bond mechanism in place.
ben_vulpes: i don't have a clear picture of how pricing these would work either. part of my concern with bonds is that for a largely fiat denominated operation, interest on a btc loan can murder you if the fiat/btc rate goes up significantly, and fiat incomes stay the same.
mod6: If my scenario, or anything is not clear, just say, will try to formalize better. I think it may be more agreeable if asciilifeform and mod6 hold the same mount of stock. Alternatively, both of us could just take convertable bonds.
mircea_popescu: mod6, technically you don't have stock as you're not listed ; but yes, you'd own whatever % regardless.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 16:35 mircea_popescu: so agree that you'll each add another 5btc as circumstances merit ; then pizarro has all the backing it needs and a clear path to success. and if the circumstances "merit" in the sense that it needs rescuing rather than it's expanding, you can fire the management and get someone else or w/e.
mod6: Hm? I think that's what we're just trying to figure out.
mod6: ah, yeah. Just trying to sort out the finer points I believe.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, let me tell you some things. a while ago you got these doods into a miserable situation they don't know how to extract themselves from, by ending up with 10x the warrants bingoboingo got. last i checked the dood actually moved down there.
mircea_popescu: now currently you're engaging in a boatload of pussyfooting around the fact that pizarro doesn't need more capital as it is ; and the only conceivable function more capital could possibly serve as things stand is to give you some other excuse to not get sales going.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how you're working all this out in your skull, but so far you're being a liability rather than an asset. why isn't this obvious ?
ben_vulpes: seems pretty obvious to me that i'm barely keeping my nose above water with just the mechanics of pushing this along. mod6 wants to talk about putting more money in, that's his perogative. i'm assuaging BingoBoingo on bus factor of maintaining the shared server tonight and trying to make sense of the web hosting forums to filter them per yesterday's chat. once mod6 and asciilifeform make a decision about
ben_vulpes: selling themselves more equity or not, i'm going to bring up paying BingoBoingo more since that's a pretty important point.
ben_vulpes: i'm listening to your critiques and working to address them directly. if i'm such a drag, mod6 and asciilifeform should probably replace me
mod6: If I may, I think there's always room for improvement, and such critiques are good, help us to get better.
mod6: We have a variety of urgent matters to address. As soon as we get the additional money in place, we can get the new rockchips going. Give BingoBoingo a raise (& new digs?).
mod6: We gotta get that going, mircea_popescu worries for us. I know he wants to see this succeed.
mod6: I think ben_vulpes is doing a very good job with all that he has coming at him, BingoBoingo and asciilifeform too. I don't want to replace anyone. Time is a luxury that we don't have. However, for a moment, if we step back and look at what we've accomplished so far, I think it's something to be proud of.
mod6: We just need to keep pressing, not a moment to lose, as mircea_popescu keeps reminding us.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, it's not that i dislike you or anything ; but you gotta understand there's two views to any phenomena, id est subjective and objective. from the objective view you look bad. it's not the end of the world, but rather a very valuable signal.
mircea_popescu: they'll replace you in good time, which is to say if they have to pour more money in at the earliest. but that day's not yet upon you, and until it is, might as well give it your best shot.
mircea_popescu: just, shoot in the direction of the target, not in the direction of the general room.
mircea_popescu: mod6, anyway, to answer some angle of the question asked, rather than "the question read between the lines" -- pizarro wirh 8 something btc in cash whatever it is does not specifically require more cash to confront a 1.x expenditure and some months of .5 each overhead or w/e it is. the fact that you two are committed to further putting money in as need may be is utterly sufficient, as far as i can discern. ymmv, but you asked.
ben_vulpes: look my greatest reservation in even taking this gig was that i've not really the know-how, and would be performing poorly in public the whole while. the much-maligned "learning on the job", not that i want in the slightest to 'fake it till i make it'. that by trying, i was more likely to get drummed out of the whole party for not doing a good job. and that's a cost i'm willing pay, i guess, if it builds the
ben_vulpes: republic even the tiniest shittiest beachhead,
mircea_popescu: performing poorly in public is a great fucking boon. that's what school is, basically.
ben_vulpes: i don't come here to not be disliked, i come and work because it's challenging, the people here make me think and work hard and don't soft-pedal critiques, and because there's no other ideological island out there that wouldn't be exile after the past four years.
mircea_popescu: nobody's yet, or ever, drumming anybody out for not doing a good job. the drums start drumming only if you stick to not doing a good job.
ben_vulpes: and yeah, it's school. we don't have those where i come from, so i have a lot of work to do.
ben_vulpes: anyways, keep highlighting where you think i'm dropping the ball and i'll work to not.
ave1: As to this: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814283. This is all a matter of the specsfile apparently. Now I can do a dumpspec and sed script to make it always do statics, or I can change the source-code that has references to shared/static dispersed over C and H file in the gcc/config/ directory. This will take some time to get right (if the first approach works then I know what to do for the second). This will take some days
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814223 << ave1 can we dispense with building the 'builds dynamic turds, so demands musl on system elsewhere' rubbish ? it is useless. let's stick to useful compiler, that works on any box with matching architecture
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 05:51 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, BingoBoingo asked for documentation on the UY1 shared hosting setup, and automation for same so i put this together: http://pizarroisp.net/newaccounts.txt asciilifeform mod6 pls to eyeball
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 05:56 mircea_popescu: now currently you're engaging in a boatload of pussyfooting around the fact that pizarro doesn't need more capital as it is ; and the only conceivable function more capital could possibly serve as things stand is to give you some other excuse to not get sales going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814661 << per ben_vulpes's published numberz, mircea_popescu is elementarily correct -- even if we do an astoundingly princely rockchiptron buildout, will still have a good half yr of runway ( at present exch rate ) remaining ( but , more importantly , something to sell ! right nao we've nuffin to sell aside from the shared unix and the 1 remaining rc )
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 06:25 mircea_popescu: mod6, anyway, to answer some angle of the question asked, rather than "the question read between the lines" -- pizarro wirh 8 something btc in cash whatever it is does not specifically require more cash to confront a 1.x expenditure and some months of .5 each overhead or w/e it is. the fact that you two are committed to further putting money in as need may be is utterly sufficient, as far as i can discern. y
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the merit of the shared unix is its cheapness. it's generally the experience of businessmen than orgs selling cheap items can be upgraded to also sell more expensive items ; while the reverse rarely works irl.
mircea_popescu: lifetimes have been spent chasing the magic dust of "but why this be", so it can stay a black box for nao, it's just yet another strange property of the universe surroundant.
asciilifeform: the only serious weakness of shared-unix is what happens when you start populating it with randos, rather than the l1/tight-l2 currently living there
asciilifeform: ( replaced with 'i can't believe it's not server' vpsolade )
mircea_popescu: i doubt this is true ; it may be, but it may also be it went extinct in heathendom for the reason food went extinct -- too lazy, and "better, moar technological" alternatives.
mircea_popescu: why's marriage gone extinct ? not like the present day idiocy makes anyone happy. yet, they think they gotta "respect" the woman.
mircea_popescu: why would anyone think such a thing ? it never worked in practice yet, but then again somehow "what works" ain't nobody's got time for.
asciilifeform: fact of the matter is that shared unix tenant can create problems for the others ( without necessarily revealing himself as the source of said problem ) quite trivially . ( vps is moar 'nobus' in this respect, generally the 'escapes' are not public )
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not proposing x.1 as a counterargument of y.2, they're separate trees, and separate trees are reconciled at the roots by a manager.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, ben_vulpes, it occurs to me that in the hubub yesterday you omitted to explain the reasoning behind the various items. i guess it's maybe not evident, but the semantic content of "i dunno how you're working all this out in your skull" is "please explain how you're thinking".
mircea_popescu: that's not just a word / "something you say" / etc, we're not doing word salad, we're doing ASTs for lack of a better term, there's trees everywhere at the basis of and underneath expression, and those trees are sorted and organized by rational criteria.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:48 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 << ah damn, sir. Why are you playing with knives here. It was obvious a long time ago that mircea_popescu just wanted you to submit. You can't block the king from intervening in lordly affairs in his own kingdom.
mircea_popescu: the examination of those trees, and the procedures that produced them, are the substance of "that's what school is".
mircea_popescu: so, how did your reasoning go that produced 100k hither, 10k thither ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 03:32 ben_vulpes: yo BingoBoingo how about some scans of that hot cedula :P
mircea_popescu: i don't know ; and i'd like to know ; but i'd rather not guess, which is the entire point of even having a wot in the first place, take the guessing out of society, bring reason back among people.
mircea_popescu: understand that what's required of you isn't a bland "do better", somehow magically and on your own power ; it's evident that your own power gets you where it got you, idly power-cycling the machine isn't the republican game.
mircea_popescu: what's required of you is to explain ~how~ you processed sense data to end up in what looks from outside like wedges and thereby how to avoid it in future. even if it's a lot of explaining and fixing takes a lifetime, nevertheless, that's the process, and that's ~why~ "we're not x, we're y".
mircea_popescu: (and i'll point out that the eulora movement away from prices-because-prices to prices-for-these-reasons that's been evident in the coupla years past is very much of this exact same substance. a rational universe, plox, had enough of the emotional one.)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, you should remove keybase from your profile.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh hah i assumed he wanted the 'cedula' scan for the same purpose BingoBoingo sent me his old americedula scan ( so as to send crates his way )
asciilifeform never was able to bring himself to make acct on 'keybase' even for entomological work
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, why else all the pretense, you know. bitpay exists to "please stop using bitcoin", keybase exists to "please stop using rsa", the WHOLE point of the usg ersatzen is exactly this, to get the sort of retard who can't tell the difference between item and usg.fake to stop using item.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: seems like it might be high time to walk it for pgp keys, for refresh, if it is not already too late
mircea_popescu: HOW else " the reason food went extinct -- too lazy, and "better, moar technological" alternatives." / "why's marriage gone extinct ? not like the present day idiocy makes anyone happy. " etc.
mircea_popescu: i suspect, further, that this is traditionally, and nearly universally, the failure mode in "tech" ie computer fabrication and utilization (and thereby may be a major item in say http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/ ) : the production of ideal objects involved is so complex, management ends up in info overload and the technologists involved end up misinterpreting the barf as meaningful ~within their visible edges
mircea_popescu: ~. much easier to produce mistrust than trust in the process of organizing work with computers.
mircea_popescu: this is then summarized as "asciilifeform iirc rms really hated noftsker, for some reason", and always in that same format, too, "for some reason". the reason, above : x said something y took somewhere.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is known to have contributed to the bolixocalypse -- famously they built an entire factory -- based on faulty logic ; it hastened the bankruptcy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms hating noftsker has 0 to do with the death of bolix, but with the ~birth~
asciilifeform: ( iirc this was laid out in pedantic detail in the log )
mircea_popescu: wasn't specifically saying birth or death, merely trying to examine the mechanism.
mircea_popescu: from out in the darkness, because the "very intelligent" people invovled weren't, apparently, intelligent enough to help me with this problem.
asciilifeform: pretty sure that all the actually intelligent folx who sank on that titanic, are dead nao
mircea_popescu: these are eminently the sorts of problems of the stupid, whereby those who come after can't fucking discern what the everloving fuck were you thinking. however the empire managed to wedge them into stupid, through creating a hallucinatory "need for secrecy" or through "women get to choose, and you'll produce choices for them free of charge" or whatever nonsense -- the fact remains, here i sit, and they could've been the hitti
asciilifeform: ( one gnarly headache with the rockchip board, is that it can ~only~ boot from microsd, and there is no way to keep tentant from overwriting it. so it gotta be painfully pulled, reimaged, when box is repopulated )
asciilifeform: right but if i can find the item. thus far it only seems to be offered in china and in container-sized min order.
asciilifeform: ( and, lulzily, classical sd card ~does not support write protect~, it has the same usg.nonsensical 'software read writeprotect tab' as old floppies )
mircea_popescu: kinda why we need someone in china, to dissolve exactly this sort of "only seems to be offered in china and in container-sized min order" situation ; which arises for very good reasons to do with industrialization, and is eminently solvable -- but not by the red skins, nor from inside the reservation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because "white man" aka esltard won't learn fucking languages, or leave "the country" ie zone. and when he does, he takes care to first arm self with such impenetrable armor of shit-for-brains as to practically make no possible difference to anyone.
mircea_popescu: colonialism is bad mkay and jewing got the jews burneds so let's never ever fucking do anything ever again.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:40 mircea_popescu: what is behind comments like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814037, "I moved more recently than this fellow and I'll get my id after he does" ? "I don't, properly speaking, think bb is a person, at least not in the same sense / to the same degree I am" ?
ben_vulpes: speaking of, BingoBoingo, now that you have the cedula, are you approaching the point where i can buy usd for wire into your local bank account?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> speaking of, BingoBoingo, now that you have the cedula, are you approaching the point where i can buy usd for wire into your local bank account? << BTC to bank wire can be done, for some amounts it can be done now. The concern is blowing up the current low tax regime my current unipersonal is sitting in. I would like more clarity on a plan for doing this other than "[ben_vulpes] can buy usd for wire into "BingoBoingo's]
BingoBoingo: I can prepare reports on the local corporate options, and from what I understand asciilifeform is working on a corporate conduit for this sort of transaction as well.
BingoBoingo: As many contracts etc that we have sitting in my personal name, I am wary of the bus factor (either getting hit by or brain irrecoverably eggog'ing inside of). I have serious reservations for a plan that involves sending scans of my personal non-US identity document to allow someone sitting inside the empire to play trader, if that is what the request is for. I apologize if this is an uncharitable reading, but if you want me to instead
BingoBoingo: put some of my idle time into compiling reports on Pizarro's options for accomplishing certain goals (getting a UY corp, etc) I can do that. I need clarity of instructions.
ben_vulpes: no, scans not a great idea. i would like to know what line over which blows you out of the low tax regime, some 20kusd per year do i recall correctly?
BingoBoingo: With the lessons learned on the way to my UY cedula, we can probably condense the next fellow's ordeal down to 3-ish weeks.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i thought 'cedula' Officially needs 6 mo ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A decision on residence requires 6-12 months. The cedula itself can be done faster, now that I know everyone around me in this country is an idiot.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: won't a second uy corp just incur more taxes, and then more more taxes when it exceeds the low tax regime hole?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: A UY corp would be an actual corp. What I have now, as discussed previously is a unipersonal, essentially I am a registered person doing business. This means what I do as the Unipersonal is all personal liability. Corps can receive all kinds of incoming transactions that aren't necessarily "income".
ben_vulpes: and i recall that the driver for setting up either uycorp or some other foreigncorp is to get the liability for the dc contract off BingoBoingo's personal neck and onto an impersonal corporation, correct?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: it is. Granted it would take at least 3 continuous weeks in country, substantially more standing in line
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> and i recall that the driver for setting up either uycorp or some other foreigncorp is to get the liability for the dc contract off BingoBoingo's personal neck and onto an impersonal corporation, correct? << This and getting a BTC/USD conduit, and proceeding to get IPs straight from the regional registry
BingoBoingo: Something that can hold an IP block assignment and DC contract at least, if you want to use something else for the BTC/fiat conduit
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: do you know what the costs for establishing this corp in uy are? asciilifeform you still need another trip to .ro to finalize your corp?
asciilifeform: ( with parts, the fact that they have to arrive in the country with either 300% tax , or in submarine, or up an arse, at least partly explains. but why there are ~no sane accounting folx , remains puzzler )
asciilifeform: possibly the 2 are connected -- no serious commerce, ergo no specialists
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because nobody ever told them they better be useful. so they're "nice" or w/e.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( with parts, the fact that they have to arrive in the country with either 300% tax , or in submarine, or up an arse, at least partly explains. but why there are ~no sane accounting folx , remains puzzler ) << Now in May there appear to be better options accessible than in december, but they don't have languages other than Spanish in their toolkit.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 21:17 BingoBoingo: ^ ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform I have proposed a start for negotiations on a compensation package through February 2019 for your consideration here: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/#fn1-1909
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 15:24 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that otp microsd cards exist!! should substantially lower the labour cost of maintaining rockchip cluster. IF i can actually find a vendor !
asciilifeform: ave1: is the meaning of 'true hardware write protect' unclear ?!!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo, why do you suspect pizarro can pay something like that ? << The idea is that there is a path for pizarro to get revenue. If pizarro can´t afford something closer to that than the current arrangement, I suspect they can't afford to keep someone in Uruguay.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, obviously people working at something should pick the rewards of their work. what i don't get is why are you formulating this split in absolute rather than relative terms ?
mircea_popescu: saying "well, there's objective costs to $X, be it installing a rack or being in uy, these have to be paid" is one thing ; but seems you're discussing another thing, and how can you, i, ben_vulpes , anyone else transform "future" into "btc value" ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: They asked me to put forward an idea. It isn't the best idea, but it one that makes the idea of continuing to stomach life in a country populated by a people I hate and who are culturally programmed to piss me off. I would like them to structure something they can afford instead of biting on this proposal.
mircea_popescu: seemed to me the way ben_vulpes was going was towards a yes/no type response. aanyways.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, for my entirely idle curiosity, what sort of time occupancy have you seen in the past month ? 12.5% ie hour/day ? more ? less ?
BingoBoingo: In the past month, aside from asciilifeform's visit roughly and hour to and hour and a half a day on strictly pizzaro business, minus time awaiting instructions. For the couple weeks after the ben_vulpes visit there was a consecutive run of days well over 8 hours. The work has been incredibly bursty in its flavor.
mircea_popescu: so we could say part of your problem here is idleness.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, why do you have an idle resource on the ground ? this is what management is, yes ? keeping the mills fed ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo will , i suspect , have all 8 hands full when the full-scale rockchiptron is brought online and tentants come/go regularly
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it is. i have neglected sales and putting BingoBoingo to work on that and conveying to him what he needs to know in order to do the shared hosting work that has until now landed on my plate. with the manual i published yesterday im now in a position to hand off new shared shell customers to him, and am looking at a list of hosting forums i put together for filtering over the past two days.
ben_vulpes: the active filtering i'd like to put in is either a regular set of eyeballs (BingoBoingo's, or the mentioned-tangentially sales guy to hire) on the "design" corners of these hosting forums to pm our ads for shells on the shared server to folks who are building websites directly
ben_vulpes: or a mircea_popescu fetlife-style automated PMer to do the outbound
ben_vulpes: hostingdiscussion.com at least has a user-enumerable db, but i don't know if an automated approach would get pizarro blacklisted, or even if we care, right? can make another account and pick up where left off.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recall, lobbes offered to work sales on commission
asciilifeform: really i advise ben_vulpes to get that chalkboard. quite srsly, i do not say this to make ben_vulpes cry, but because it is genuinely a win
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, understand that merely clear signs that management is aware of problems and working on them, and open communications are a larger morale boost than pretty much anything else. it's how folk manage to man pill boxes, which suck for any other criteria.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i also have open problems that you could probably help with. for instance, i am in search of a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814828 , and of 32 ( or at worst , 2 x 16 ) port GB/s ~bare pcb~ ethernet switches that don't come with 'minumal order 1000' chinesium insult
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 17:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the very least, need a 680mm ( or at worst, 650mm ) 2u ( most economical bang/buck variant ) chassis with NO welded-in internal partitions
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, let me put it even sharper : you have a man who conquered a drinking habit in a position which regularily drives men to drink ; and he's complained about not having sane AA there what, twice ?
mircea_popescu: management is playing with people's lives, one's well advised to be considerate.
asciilifeform spent week in the company of BingoBoingo , and confirms that the most serious problem currently is morale , d00d needs some light in his pillbox
ben_vulpes: lobbes, and BingoBoingo while i'm at it since i want to get you on the same train, what kind of commission makes sense to you for flogging shared shells?
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-22 17:08 asciilifeform: i for instance do not see why , if it's wot l1 people living in it, it has to expend the cpu overhead to pretend-isolate and vm-ize. why not simply traditional unix accounts.
BingoBoingo: The easy, inconvenient cut is a second 1U box for the crowd. Web panel, quotas, frequent regular backups, and maybe a hot spare box..
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:51 asciilifeform: fact of the matter is that shared unix tenant can create problems for the others ( without necessarily revealing himself as the source of said problem ) quite trivially . ( vps is moar 'nobus' in this respect, generally the 'escapes' are not public )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so even user-level isolation is a lie on linux?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i also have open problems that you could probably help with. for instance, i am in search of a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814828 , and of 32 ( or at worst , 2 x 16 ) port GB/s ~bare pcb~ ethernet switches that don't come with 'minumal order 1000' chinesium insult << Will get to searching. Thoughts on a good way to perform epoxy potting on my personal FUCKGOAT that would be actually transparent
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 17:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the very least, need a 680mm ( or at worst, 650mm ) 2u ( most economical bang/buck variant ) chassis with NO welded-in internal partitions
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's not completely broken. it'\s completely breakable, which is a different thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's for sake of argument ignore other problems than 'whole box craps out' (i.e. particular users being hosed, by unknown party, with no recourse ) . how to determine which customer is culprit ?
trinque has to run, but behold usg.aws lacks arm hosting
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, the machine itself, hardware-wise, is incapable of multiuser. it leaks its memory via cache timings on 3 or 4 different layers ; it lacks its state via nic delays, it leaks like a sieve.
mircea_popescu: these are not fixable in software anymore than a dirty couch can be cleanned by photographic it with the right angle lens.
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform spent week in the company of BingoBoingo , and confirms that the most serious problem currently is morale , d00d needs some light in his pillbox << That was actually a high point for the morale. The boost carried over well into the next week. Definitely the high point of the post-bedbug era.
mod6: BingoBoingo: The raise you propse is 1 BTC at end of February of 2019, and ~8k USD now right?
mod6: And furthermore, this raise does not include whatever expenses you would require to get an apartment in .uy, correct?
BingoBoingo: mod6: The core components I am looking for are 1) A lump sum now or in the near future so that when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814853 comes I am not caught horribly undercapitalized. 2) an increase in the daily per diem to an amount that includes breathing room 3) Something sort of future award contingent on staying here. And apartment was not figured into that because it is unclear if Pizarro wants to get an apartment or if
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 18:24 mircea_popescu: you will sooner or later run into issues you need actual professional help with. just like the cold.
BingoBoingo: Pizarro wants to get BingoBoingo an apartment.
mod6: Here's the problem. We obviously need you / want you to stay. I'm told you've been doing a good job there. We have limited money at this time, as obviously, we just got into business here; and we're still trying to figure out how to get to break-even. I think the 1 BTC at the end of next february is something we can do for ya.
mod6: As far as the 8000 now, this really cuts into our available cash flow. Aside from the plainly stated fact that we then also, aside from paying bills, need to figure out how to translate another ~1 BTC in to USD and then have someone wire/WU it down to you.
ben_vulpes: mod6: "lump sum of BTC equivalent to 7500 usd", so no conversion necessary
BingoBoingo: mod6: Honestly the whatever happens at the end of next February part is actually the one I feel the most flexible on. For the immediate capitalization component I am perfectly capable of recieving BTC.
mod6: How about this. $7500, payable in BTC monthly, over the next 9 months?
mod6: That should give you some cash to work with, and allow us to not have to crush our immediate cash position on the balance sheet.
ben_vulpes: mod6: doesn't really make a difference to the books, a liability is a liability. it's going to show up on the balance sheet regardless.
mod6: I would like the draw this out a bit, instead of a big lumpsum payment now.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 20:40 BingoBoingo: mod6: The core components I am looking for are 1) A lump sum now or in the near future so that when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814853 comes I am not caught horribly undercapitalized. 2) an increase in the daily per diem to an amount that includes breathing room 3) Something sort of future award contingent on staying here. And apartment was not figured into that because it is unclear if Pizarro wants to
BingoBoingo: The board and management are free to move around on all three parts to construct something palatable.
ben_vulpes: mod6: he wants, reasonably, a counteroffer on all three axes.
mod6: Yeah, #2, and #3 are not a part of the 7500 total.
ben_vulpes: you want flexibility on the thing he's most insistent on, i'm crunching numbers on an incentive program, so he's leaning on you to make up the difference in the second axis.
mod6: We will still need to increase your overall $1800 per month (or whatever it is, so you can have pants and shoes, etc.), and an apartment was in the discussion as well.
mod6: What I want, is a commitment for no further renegotiations until at least this time of next year.
ben_vulpes: yeah in re the apartment, BingoBoingo you want to live in the dorms forever or why wasn't that in your ask
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> yeah in re the apartment, BingoBoingo you want to live in the dorms forever or why wasn't that in your ask << It's something I am flexible on.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> What I want, is a commitment for no further renegotiations until at least this time of next year. << That is the goal. It's also why I started the push this month before any more machines are holding me hostage in the cabinet.
ben_vulpes: i'd rather pay increased living costs either as a flat fee to get into the apartment or monthly on the rental so that you can cook for yourself and get off the street food
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: would own quarters move the needle significantly on morale?
ben_vulpes: you've astonishing will to keep yourself together around the addicts but i worry about the cost of keeping clenched constantly
BingoBoingo: The people everywhere bu the hostel fire the disgust receptors far more frequently than the ones inside.
ben_vulpes: sure, but i'm talking about quality of existence here. own place to shit, own food prep area, not having to constantly piss on preferred chairs. it buys security for effects, and calm of mind that i think BingoBoingo underestimates (unless he is a very different animal from what i imagine)
mod6: BingoBoingo: how much of your savings did you personally spend on this adventure?
mod6: If its to repay your savings you spent on this whole adventure, then you'll get your money.
mod6: That I can understand. But I don't want to give you 7500 to go and spend on hookers and blow.
BingoBoingo: mod6: I didn't object to the 2 part split.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo struck asciilifeform as a sensible fella, who won't blow whole wad on the proverbial h&b. more like , wants to maybe go on shore leave some day; and not to be 1 broken leg or frivolous charges filed by city hall (like they did to him in usa) away from penury
mod6: So that'd be ok with ya? 5000 now, 2500 september 1st?
mod6: Especially if you deem that it makes you "whole" from all the blood, sweat, tears, and cash you put into this adveture. Which, we all very much appreciate.
BingoBoingo: mod6: That would, From an FX risk perspective though the even monthly split is a killer.
mod6: Ah, you think that the september 1st payment will be a killer cause btc will be lower, ok.
mod6: Or are you saying, something else here? Not sure.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: elaborate re what's wrong with normal btc ( you can sell it now, or later, or convert to whatever suits you )
BingoBoingo: I am saying the "<mod6> So that'd be ok with ya? 5000 now, 2500 september 1st?" is not objectionable. Breaking it down into even payments is objectionable.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: elaborate re what's wrong with normal btc ( you can sell it now, or later, or convert to whatever suits you ) << Normal BTC is fine for this, but for pizarro's sake I am denominating this in Dosiedoes
mod6: Hmm? well, i am saying "5000" now to give you some padding, and feel better about it, and then 2500 later to help us get our feet a bit.
mod6: I suppose we could do 2500 now, 2500 end of july, and 2500 sept 1st or something if that seems more agreeable.
BingoBoingo: The now/September split is preferrable to others that have been proposed.
mod6: ben_vulpes, asciilifeform you guys ok with that?
mod6: And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: help me enumerate these costs?
mod6: BingoBoingo: bud, you need your own place to hang your hat, you're a Lord of the Republic, not a random street orc.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion. << I am willing to table the future incentive so you can come up with something more favorable to Pizarro than 1 integer BTC.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: help me enumerate these costs? A substantial guarentee upfront (3-6 months rent) and then furnishing the apartment.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-17 21:23 BingoBoingo: <mod6> And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion. << I am willing to table the future incentive so you can come up with something more favorable to Pizarro than 1 integer BTC.
mod6: Yeah, maybe we could commit to some amount now, then build in a bouns structure for sales met or something.
mod6: I think you were thinking about this already, ya?
ben_vulpes: yeah, it's fuckin tricky, though. i'm trying to estimate what could reasonably be packed into uy1 from a shared shell and ftp perspective, but i think 20 shell accounts and 100 lower-end ftp-only accounts is probably the max that box can carry without overbooking it, and if we can get to that point within a year i'll be pleased as punch, as it'll cover a significant fraction of the whole pizarro operation's
ben_vulpes: expenses and would be willing to put down a half btc incentive if we hit that. i'm also considering that the apartment rental is going to be maybe 20% more expensive than the combined cowork and bunk, and propose moving some of the end-of-year incentive forward in time to pay for that.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> yeah, it's fuckin tricky, though. i'm trying to estimate what could reasonably be packed into uy1 from a shared shell and ftp perspective, but i think 20 shell accounts and 100 lower-end ftp-only accounts is probably the max that box can carry without overbooking it, and if we can get to that point within a year i'll be pleased as punch, as it'll cover a significant fraction of the whole pizarro operation's << Sweet
mod6: So, BingoBoingo : Sounds like we have most of a plan then.
mod6: Can I get your assurances that this won't come up again for a long time, at least a year or ever? We're just dumping cash. And we're not going to be in business long at all.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> plus table, chairs, bed, cutlery, hot water heater? << Whiteboard
mod6: I'm not made of BTC like some people, and we are still way under where we need to be at.
mod6: So my willingness to keep putting money into this is contingent on whether or not we can even reach profitibility. Which we'll never get there if "raises" and other "surpises" keep coming ujp.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> Can I get your assurances that this won't come up again for a long time, at least a year or ever? We're just dumping cash. And we're not going to be in business long at all. << You have my assurance. This discussion was started in Februay had been tabled without activity since then. Hence reviving it when we have a path to get to where we need to be, but before we get another infusion of iron down here.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I will start that, also inquire about setting up a corporation, and register accounts on the filter feeding forums so they can start getting some age.
ben_vulpes: great, i mentioned hostingdiscussion.com , webhostingtalk.com, forums.hostsearch.com to you, also warriorforum.com from mircea_popescu's mentions once upon a time. i'll dig up some others as well.
ben_vulpes: i disqualified some others for ~zero activity in the past two years, but haven't ruled out hostsearch or warriorforum yet