Logs for #trilema

Go to: #trilema #pizarro #asciilifeform #trilema-mod6 #chainstate #eulora

2018-5-16 | 2018-5-18

deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/16/tin-cans-full-of-misery-riding-the-bus-in-uruguay/ << Bingo Blog - Tin Cans Full Of Misery Riding The Bus In Uruguay
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-prerelease/ << esthlos - esthlos-v Prerelease
esthlos: ^^ please check out the prerelease
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kdDdf/?raw=true trinque, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/aOt6H/?raw=true
mircea_popescu waves hello.
mircea_popescu: "Patrick Flanagan (born October 11, 1944) is an American New Age author and inventor." bwhahaha
mircea_popescu: in other fetlife lulz, "You look like you run a cult so I’m gonna pass."
ben_vulpes: what, you don't want facial brandings?
mircea_popescu: i have nfi how she figured that out, but i suppose i actually do huh.
ben_vulpes: did we do https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/17/nyregion/nxivm-women-branded-albany.html yet?
ben_vulpes: http://hollywoodlife.com/2018/05/16/allison-mack-first-week-nxivm-joined-cult/ also
mircea_popescu: are you fucking kidding me ?! most pimps brand the hos, wtf.
mircea_popescu: the only reason is most rather than all is because pimps are lazy and disorganized. cattle ranchers, all.
ben_vulpes: meuuuuh
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, holy shit, so i was on the beach where we ran into this very bubbly florida chick there for "a women's empowerment seminar", which i thought was bizarre.
mircea_popescu: she was extremely bubbly and "omfg, HAVE YOU SEEN $this" with values of $this ~= everything, sky, sand, w/e.
mircea_popescu: but now i'm thinking MAYBE A NEFARIOUS UNDERSTORY!
ben_vulpes: so didja get to see her cult?
mircea_popescu: lol nah.
mircea_popescu: it never occured to me to ask.
mircea_popescu: had i seen the channel first though....
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. we burned some sort of local cedar or something, i have nfi what it is, but i smelled delicious in the shower. and there's someone sniffing my shirt from the laundry basket.
mircea_popescu: might as well archive the lulz. http://www.keithraniere.com/
mircea_popescu: "acclaimed doctor and author, Luis Eugenio Todd."
mircea_popescu: apparently Gack was taken.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, ty fixed
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qco5w/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: works.
danielpbarron: now?
mircea_popescu: tomorrow.
mod6: Have been thinking about the refinancing, revisiting some old logs. Wondering if mircea_popescu would be willing to educate me a bit, and entertain a few possible scenarios.
mircea_popescu: sure.
mod6: For instance, let us use a scenario such as: asciilifeform puts in X BTC, mod6 matches alf's X BTC (where X <= 5), can this be created as stock then? In this scenario 500`000 shares would be assigned to alf & mod6 alike. In the circumstance I would put in (10 - X) more BTC, this could be assigned to me as "convertable bonds". I've been revisiting our conversation from a while back on the Pricing of Capita
mod6: l:
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-18#1784757
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 18:01 ben_vulpes: for a convertible note like that, how'd you go about setting the conversion rate? lots of yelling?
mod6: This is something that would be figured out at some later date (the conversion rate). However, can Pizarro issue bonds just to me? Or does there need to be a tranche of them offered otherwise?
ben_vulpes: i'd prefer to have a bond mechanism in place.
ben_vulpes: i don't have a clear picture of how pricing these would work either. part of my concern with bonds is that for a largely fiat denominated operation, interest on a btc loan can murder you if the fiat/btc rate goes up significantly, and fiat incomes stay the same.
mod6: If my scenario, or anything is not clear, just say, will try to formalize better. I think it may be more agreeable if asciilifeform and mod6 hold the same mount of stock. Alternatively, both of us could just take convertable bonds.
mircea_popescu: mod6, technically you don't have stock as you're not listed ; but yes, you'd own whatever % regardless.
mod6: Ah, solid point.
mircea_popescu: and yes, pizarro can issue bonds in general. who buys them depends on who pizarro wants to sell them to.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, BingoBoingo asked for documentation on the UY1 shared hosting setup, and automation for same so i put this together: http://pizarroisp.net/newaccounts.txt asciilifeform mod6 pls to eyeball
mod6: mircea_popescu: Ok good deal there.
mircea_popescu: mod6, anyway, what happened to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814465 ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 16:35 mircea_popescu: so agree that you'll each add another 5btc as circumstances merit ; then pizarro has all the backing it needs and a clear path to success. and if the circumstances "merit" in the sense that it needs rescuing rather than it's expanding, you can fire the management and get someone else or w/e.
mod6: Hm? I think that's what we're just trying to figure out.
mod6 re-reads
mod6: ah, yeah. Just trying to sort out the finer points I believe.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, let me tell you some things. a while ago you got these doods into a miserable situation they don't know how to extract themselves from, by ending up with 10x the warrants bingoboingo got. last i checked the dood actually moved down there.
mircea_popescu: now currently you're engaging in a boatload of pussyfooting around the fact that pizarro doesn't need more capital as it is ; and the only conceivable function more capital could possibly serve as things stand is to give you some other excuse to not get sales going.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how you're working all this out in your skull, but so far you're being a liability rather than an asset. why isn't this obvious ?
ben_vulpes: seems pretty obvious to me that i'm barely keeping my nose above water with just the mechanics of pushing this along. mod6 wants to talk about putting more money in, that's his perogative. i'm assuaging BingoBoingo on bus factor of maintaining the shared server tonight and trying to make sense of the web hosting forums to filter them per yesterday's chat. once mod6 and asciilifeform make a decision about
ben_vulpes: selling themselves more equity or not, i'm going to bring up paying BingoBoingo more since that's a pretty important point.
ben_vulpes: i'm listening to your critiques and working to address them directly. if i'm such a drag, mod6 and asciilifeform should probably replace me
mod6: If I may, I think there's always room for improvement, and such critiques are good, help us to get better.
mod6: We have a variety of urgent matters to address. As soon as we get the additional money in place, we can get the new rockchips going. Give BingoBoingo a raise (& new digs?).
mod6: Sales.
mod6: We gotta get that going, mircea_popescu worries for us. I know he wants to see this succeed.
mod6: I think ben_vulpes is doing a very good job with all that he has coming at him, BingoBoingo and asciilifeform too. I don't want to replace anyone. Time is a luxury that we don't have. However, for a moment, if we step back and look at what we've accomplished so far, I think it's something to be proud of.
mod6: We just need to keep pressing, not a moment to lose, as mircea_popescu keeps reminding us.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, it's not that i dislike you or anything ; but you gotta understand there's two views to any phenomena, id est subjective and objective. from the objective view you look bad. it's not the end of the world, but rather a very valuable signal.
mod6: Rightly so.
mircea_popescu: they'll replace you in good time, which is to say if they have to pour more money in at the earliest. but that day's not yet upon you, and until it is, might as well give it your best shot.
mircea_popescu: just, shoot in the direction of the target, not in the direction of the general room.
mircea_popescu: mod6, anyway, to answer some angle of the question asked, rather than "the question read between the lines" -- pizarro wirh 8 something btc in cash whatever it is does not specifically require more cash to confront a 1.x expenditure and some months of .5 each overhead or w/e it is. the fact that you two are committed to further putting money in as need may be is utterly sufficient, as far as i can discern. ymmv, but you asked.
mod6: Yeah, the commitment is there.
mod6: I better get some zzzs. We can pick it back up tomorrow.
mod6: night!
ben_vulpes: look my greatest reservation in even taking this gig was that i've not really the know-how, and would be performing poorly in public the whole while. the much-maligned "learning on the job", not that i want in the slightest to 'fake it till i make it'. that by trying, i was more likely to get drummed out of the whole party for not doing a good job. and that's a cost i'm willing pay, i guess, if it builds the
ben_vulpes: republic even the tiniest shittiest beachhead,
mircea_popescu: performing poorly in public is a great fucking boon. that's what school is, basically.
ben_vulpes: i don't come here to not be disliked, i come and work because it's challenging, the people here make me think and work hard and don't soft-pedal critiques, and because there's no other ideological island out there that wouldn't be exile after the past four years.
mircea_popescu: nobody's yet, or ever, drumming anybody out for not doing a good job. the drums start drumming only if you stick to not doing a good job.
ben_vulpes: and yeah, it's school. we don't have those where i come from, so i have a lot of work to do.
ben_vulpes: anyways, keep highlighting where you think i'm dropping the ball and i'll work to not.
mircea_popescu: alright.
ave1: As to this: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814283. This is all a matter of the specsfile apparently. Now I can do a dumpspec and sed script to make it always do statics, or I can change the source-code that has references to shared/static dispersed over C and H file in the gcc/config/ directory. This will take some time to get right (if the first approach works then I know what to do for the second). This will take some days
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 13:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814223 << ave1 can we dispense with building the 'builds dynamic turds, so demands musl on system elsewhere' rubbish ? it is useless. let's stick to useful compiler, that works on any box with matching architecture
ave1: Reading through the gcc code does produce lulz btw, this http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LaACm/?raw=true is in gcc/config/gnu-user.h. It's in 4.9.4 and still in 8.1.0, nobody is reading the code (http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#comment-117906).
ave1: wrong paste btw
ave1: now to find the right one
ave1: i thought that one was a copy paste, but my dyslexia played up again
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814442 <-- sorry for the confusion, this was miscommunication on my part. I took a look at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-11#1812181 , then one thing led to another and I ended up doing shithub key harvesting. still on track for new rss bot though.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 16:07 mircea_popescu: oh ? hm. i thought that was ave1 lol.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-11 14:50 spyked: re enumeration, it seems that shithub has this in their public API: https://developer.github.com/v3/users/#get-all-users never tried it though
mircea_popescu: spyked, works, it's needed anyway.
mircea_popescu: ave1, well, some people are apparently reading trilema...
mircea_popescu: (though, technically, usg.nsa.redhat ~is~ doing some reading. https://access.redhat.com/solutions/3029191 )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814638 << loox correct on 1st inspection; ty ben_vulpes
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 05:51 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, BingoBoingo asked for documentation on the UY1 shared hosting setup, and automation for same so i put this together: http://pizarroisp.net/newaccounts.txt asciilifeform mod6 pls to eyeball
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814642 << i suspect that mod6 & ben_vulpes would profit from installing... chalkboards ( can be whiteboard etc ) like asciilifeform ended up with
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 05:53 mod6: Hm? I think that's what we're just trying to figure out.
asciilifeform: a good % of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814646 i suspect comes from elementary info overload.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 05:56 mircea_popescu: now currently you're engaging in a boatload of pussyfooting around the fact that pizarro doesn't need more capital as it is ; and the only conceivable function more capital could possibly serve as things stand is to give you some other excuse to not get sales going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814661 << per ben_vulpes's published numberz, mircea_popescu is elementarily correct -- even if we do an astoundingly princely rockchiptron buildout, will still have a good half yr of runway ( at present exch rate ) remaining ( but , more importantly , something to sell ! right nao we've nuffin to sell aside from the shared unix and the 1 remaining rc )
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 06:25 mircea_popescu: mod6, anyway, to answer some angle of the question asked, rather than "the question read between the lines" -- pizarro wirh 8 something btc in cash whatever it is does not specifically require more cash to confront a 1.x expenditure and some months of .5 each overhead or w/e it is. the fact that you two are committed to further putting money in as need may be is utterly sufficient, as far as i can discern. y
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the merit of the shared unix is its cheapness. it's generally the experience of businessmen than orgs selling cheap items can be upgraded to also sell more expensive items ; while the reverse rarely works irl.
mircea_popescu: lifetimes have been spent chasing the magic dust of "but why this be", so it can stay a black box for nao, it's just yet another strange property of the universe surroundant.
asciilifeform: the only serious weakness of shared-unix is what happens when you start populating it with randos, rather than the l1/tight-l2 currently living there
mircea_popescu: this is very true.
asciilifeform: sorta why it went ~extinct in heathendom
asciilifeform: ( replaced with 'i can't believe it's not server' vpsolade )
mircea_popescu: i doubt this is true ; it may be, but it may also be it went extinct in heathendom for the reason food went extinct -- too lazy, and "better, moar technological" alternatives.
mircea_popescu: why's marriage gone extinct ? not like the present day idiocy makes anyone happy. yet, they think they gotta "respect" the woman.
mircea_popescu: why would anyone think such a thing ? it never worked in practice yet, but then again somehow "what works" ain't nobody's got time for.
asciilifeform: fact of the matter is that shared unix tenant can create problems for the others ( without necessarily revealing himself as the source of said problem ) quite trivially . ( vps is moar 'nobus' in this respect, generally the 'escapes' are not public )
mircea_popescu: this is true.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not proposing x.1 as a counterargument of y.2, they're separate trees, and separate trees are reconciled at the roots by a manager.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, ben_vulpes, it occurs to me that in the hubub yesterday you omitted to explain the reasoning behind the various items. i guess it's maybe not evident, but the semantic content of "i dunno how you're working all this out in your skull" is "please explain how you're thinking".
mircea_popescu: this isn't some kind of internet powergames special dweeb hour / the empire of flies / politica pe bat cu pic si poc / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784352 ; it's the republic of thinking men.
mircea_popescu: that's not just a word / "something you say" / etc, we're not doing word salad, we're doing ASTs for lack of a better term, there's trees everywhere at the basis of and underneath expression, and those trees are sorted and organized by rational criteria.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:48 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 << ah damn, sir. Why are you playing with knives here. It was obvious a long time ago that mircea_popescu just wanted you to submit. You can't block the king from intervening in lordly affairs in his own kingdom.
mircea_popescu: the examination of those trees, and the procedures that produced them, are the substance of "that's what school is".
mircea_popescu: so, how did your reasoning go that produced 100k hither, 10k thither ?
mircea_popescu: what is behind comments like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814037, "I moved more recently than this fellow and I'll get my id after he does" ? "I don't, properly speaking, think bb is a person, at least not in the same sense / to the same degree I am" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-16 03:32 ben_vulpes: yo BingoBoingo how about some scans of that hot cedula :P
mircea_popescu: i don't know ; and i'd like to know ; but i'd rather not guess, which is the entire point of even having a wot in the first place, take the guessing out of society, bring reason back among people.
mircea_popescu: understand that what's required of you isn't a bland "do better", somehow magically and on your own power ; it's evident that your own power gets you where it got you, idly power-cycling the machine isn't the republican game.
mircea_popescu: what's required of you is to explain ~how~ you processed sense data to end up in what looks from outside like wedges and thereby how to avoid it in future. even if it's a lot of explaining and fixing takes a lifetime, nevertheless, that's the process, and that's ~why~ "we're not x, we're y".
danielpbarron: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/XsZ36/?raw=true << email sent to me from keybase says i should remove PGP from my profile
mircea_popescu: (and i'll point out that the eulora movement away from prices-because-prices to prices-for-these-reasons that's been evident in the coupla years past is very much of this exact same substance. a rational universe, plox, had enough of the emotional one.)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, you should remove keybase from your profile.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: oh hah i assumed he wanted the 'cedula' scan for the same purpose BingoBoingo sent me his old americedula scan ( so as to send crates his way )
danielpbarron: already did
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, entirely possible, i've nfi.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a point tho, we should not be stuck sitting and guessing.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: hilarious, i had nfi
asciilifeform never was able to bring himself to make acct on 'keybase' even for entomological work
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, why else all the pretense, you know. bitpay exists to "please stop using bitcoin", keybase exists to "please stop using rsa", the WHOLE point of the usg ersatzen is exactly this, to get the sort of retard who can't tell the difference between item and usg.fake to stop using item.
danielpbarron: oh i haven't used it in many years
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: seems like it might be high time to walk it for pgp keys, for refresh, if it is not already too late
mircea_popescu: HOW else " the reason food went extinct -- too lazy, and "better, moar technological" alternatives." / "why's marriage gone extinct ? not like the present day idiocy makes anyone happy. " etc.
asciilifeform: i suspect that soon they will vanish'em
mircea_popescu: there's the equivalent of ferments, pushing chemistry "against" thermodynamics, ie, niggers pushing suckers against their own interest.
mircea_popescu: what does a sugar know.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it was never significant ; ten k or so lusers, and generally of the "adlai and friends" ilk.
mircea_popescu: if they're not out there advertising it as a srsly, it's utterly not worth our/anyone's time to consider whatever data they have.
mircea_popescu: the question of "whether stupidity is a conspiracy" remains, of course, open.
mircea_popescu: it might as well fucking be, of course.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814689 << this is glaringly the parsimonious explanation.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:35 asciilifeform: a good % of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814646 i suspect comes from elementary info overload.
mircea_popescu: i suspect, further, that this is traditionally, and nearly universally, the failure mode in "tech" ie computer fabrication and utilization (and thereby may be a major item in say http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/ ) : the production of ideal objects involved is so complex, management ends up in info overload and the technologists involved end up misinterpreting the barf as meaningful ~within their visible edges
mircea_popescu: ~. much easier to produce mistrust than trust in the process of organizing work with computers.
mircea_popescu: this is then summarized as "asciilifeform iirc rms really hated noftsker, for some reason", and always in that same format, too, "for some reason". the reason, above : x said something y took somewhere.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is known to have contributed to the bolixocalypse -- famously they built an entire factory -- based on faulty logic ; it hastened the bankruptcy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms hating noftsker has 0 to do with the death of bolix, but with the ~birth~
asciilifeform: ( iirc this was laid out in pedantic detail in the log )
mircea_popescu: wasn't specifically saying birth or death, merely trying to examine the mechanism.
mircea_popescu: from out in the darkness, because the "very intelligent" people invovled weren't, apparently, intelligent enough to help me with this problem.
asciilifeform: pretty sure that all the actually intelligent folx who sank on that titanic, are dead nao
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
mircea_popescu: these are eminently the sorts of problems of the stupid, whereby those who come after can't fucking discern what the everloving fuck were you thinking. however the empire managed to wedge them into stupid, through creating a hallucinatory "need for secrecy" or through "women get to choose, and you'll produce choices for them free of charge" or whatever nonsense -- the fact remains, here i sit, and they could've been the hitti
mircea_popescu: tes for thesame money.
mircea_popescu: if there can even be such a thing as a goal of human existence, "do not have the problems of the stupid" is a prime candidate.
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that otp microsd cards exist!! should substantially lower the labour cost of maintaining rockchip cluster. IF i can actually find a vendor !
asciilifeform: ( picture, non-overwriteable bootloader/kernel )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, isn't this what goes into eg digicams ?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: otp. as in, one-time programmable
mircea_popescu: oh oh. i read oem.
mircea_popescu: was baffled.
asciilifeform: ( one gnarly headache with the rockchip board, is that it can ~only~ boot from microsd, and there is no way to keep tentant from overwriting it. so it gotta be painfully pulled, reimaged, when box is repopulated )
mircea_popescu: ya.
asciilifeform: ideally these things will boot from readonly cards, and the usb can be brought out to jacks in front panel. so box dun have to be pulled and opened when repopulating .
mircea_popescu: sounds pretty good, actually.
asciilifeform: right but if i can find the item. thus far it only seems to be offered in china and in container-sized min order.
asciilifeform: ( and, lulzily, classical sd card ~does not support write protect~, it has the same usg.nonsensical 'software read writeprotect tab' as old floppies )
mircea_popescu: kinda why we need someone in china, to dissolve exactly this sort of "only seems to be offered in china and in container-sized min order" situation ; which arises for very good reasons to do with industrialization, and is eminently solvable -- but not by the red skins, nor from inside the reservation.
BingoBoingo: Lots of log to digest.
mircea_popescu: as it is bound to recur.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't clear to me how such a problem gets solved without ~someone, somewhere~ buying at least 1 whole container. but i am not expert in subj.
mircea_popescu: but you know someone somewhere did so buy, and either sold or otherwise lost chunks.
asciilifeform: afaik they are used in heavy industrial equipment strictly. ( but yes, someone, somewhere, buys; just not for retail , it is an item of 0 conceivable use to konsoomer )
mircea_popescu: didn't you end up with all sorts of industrial gear, on the cheap ? and what did you say about it, "not in jungle", yes ?
mircea_popescu: the byproducs of industry are always available -- but only to people in the town where industry is.
mircea_popescu: the failure of the us means you can get mechanical but not electronical parts is all.
asciilifeform: rrright, but an otp rom is not reusable, unlike most surplusolade
asciilifeform: gotta get it ~new~
mircea_popescu: never got never-used surpluss ?
asciilifeform: think ! it's an otp
asciilifeform: yes, got. but ~common~ items.
mircea_popescu: this is a common item by any definition, in the sense of "consumable".
asciilifeform recalls (but can't seem to unearth) at least 1 thread where we discussed the increasing rarity of otp roms, on acct of 'upgradeism' and progressing software rot
asciilifeform: it isn't a 'consumable' as such; doesn't wear out on read, and lasts for as long as the machine it is installed into
asciilifeform: at any rate, if anyone has something like a clue that these items exist, and not merely advertised for vapour-sale by chinese hucksters, asciilifeform would like to hear about it.
mircea_popescu: we need someone in china already.
asciilifeform has wondered for long time, why china is so (apparently) impenetrable
asciilifeform: it doesn't seem to be even in outer reaches of l3
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/XsZ36/?raw=true << email sent to me from keybase says i should remove PGP from my profile << This is blog fodder. Perfect material for exercise of organizing the thoughts by examining how anti-informed the Keybase position is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because "white man" aka esltard won't learn fucking languages, or leave "the country" ie zone. and when he does, he takes care to first arm self with such impenetrable armor of shit-for-brains as to practically make no possible difference to anyone.
mircea_popescu: colonialism is bad mkay and jewing got the jews burneds so let's never ever fucking do anything ever again.
asciilifeform: fwiw plenty of ru folx doing biznis in cn
asciilifeform: (it ~is~ learnable)
mircea_popescu: certainly.
mircea_popescu: they didn't fall in shenzen from mars.
mircea_popescu: hanbot, in other nominalist lulz, there existed in antiquity a she by the name "hind bint". find thee what she occupied herself with :D
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2369 << Loper OS - Wanted: Write-Once MicroSD Card !
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-17#357607 << if this is in reference to my and BingoBoingo's warrants from the first month of operations, pizarro covers BingoBoingo's rent and fodder, and doesn't pay me at all; it is a trade of cash for equity.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:40 mircea_popescu: so, how did your reasoning go that produced 100k hither, 10k thither ?
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-17#357608 << since discarded notion of posting an ad on localbitcoins; but there are plenty of offers to pick from in the ~2.5-3% markup range.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:40 mircea_popescu: what is behind comments like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814037, "I moved more recently than this fellow and I'll get my id after he does" ? "I don't, properly speaking, think bb is a person, at least not in the same sense / to the same degree I am" ?
ben_vulpes: speaking of, BingoBoingo, now that you have the cedula, are you approaching the point where i can buy usd for wire into your local bank account?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> speaking of, BingoBoingo, now that you have the cedula, are you approaching the point where i can buy usd for wire into your local bank account? << BTC to bank wire can be done, for some amounts it can be done now. The concern is blowing up the current low tax regime my current unipersonal is sitting in. I would like more clarity on a plan for doing this other than "[ben_vulpes] can buy usd for wire into "BingoBoingo's]
BingoBoingo: local bank account?"
BingoBoingo: I can prepare reports on the local corporate options, and from what I understand asciilifeform is working on a corporate conduit for this sort of transaction as well.
BingoBoingo: As many contracts etc that we have sitting in my personal name, I am wary of the bus factor (either getting hit by or brain irrecoverably eggog'ing inside of). I have serious reservations for a plan that involves sending scans of my personal non-US identity document to allow someone sitting inside the empire to play trader, if that is what the request is for. I apologize if this is an uncharitable reading, but if you want me to instead
BingoBoingo: put some of my idle time into compiling reports on Pizarro's options for accomplishing certain goals (getting a UY corp, etc) I can do that. I need clarity of instructions.
ben_vulpes: no, scans not a great idea. i would like to know what line over which blows you out of the low tax regime, some 20kusd per year do i recall correctly?
BingoBoingo: With the lessons learned on the way to my UY cedula, we can probably condense the next fellow's ordeal down to 3-ish weeks.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i thought 'cedula' Officially needs 6 mo ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A decision on residence requires 6-12 months. The cedula itself can be done faster, now that I know everyone around me in this country is an idiot.
asciilifeform: so wait, these are separate items ?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: won't a second uy corp just incur more taxes, and then more more taxes when it exceeds the low tax regime hole?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: A UY corp would be an actual corp. What I have now, as discussed previously is a unipersonal, essentially I am a registered person doing business. This means what I do as the Unipersonal is all personal liability. Corps can receive all kinds of incoming transactions that aren't necessarily "income".
BingoBoingo: Investment, etc.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> so wait, these are separate items ? << They are, to get the cedula you have to start the residency process, but it doesn't need to be compeltely decided upon.
asciilifeform: so, lemme get this straight, a '3 week cedula' is as good as a native BingoBoingostani passport , for e.g. banks ?
asciilifeform: ... or not ?
ben_vulpes: and i recall that the driver for setting up either uycorp or some other foreigncorp is to get the liability for the dc contract off BingoBoingo's personal neck and onto an impersonal corporation, correct?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: it is. Granted it would take at least 3 continuous weeks in country, substantially more standing in line
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> and i recall that the driver for setting up either uycorp or some other foreigncorp is to get the liability for the dc contract off BingoBoingo's personal neck and onto an impersonal corporation, correct? << This and getting a BTC/USD conduit, and proceeding to get IPs straight from the regional registry
BingoBoingo: Something that can hold an IP block assignment and DC contract at least, if you want to use something else for the BTC/fiat conduit
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: do you know what the costs for establishing this corp in uy are? asciilifeform you still need another trip to .ro to finalize your corp?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aye
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my item should be regarded as spare/auxiliary , nobody should hold breath for it
ben_vulpes: k
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I will try to extract some updated numbers.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 : currently occupied with component search for rockchiptron
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: looks like the uy corp is necessary for ips for the rockchips at the very least; and possibly recipient of wires from btc sales
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: cedula gets you ability to open corporate bank accounts, i hope?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Here's the flyer the government publishes on the types of structures available here. www.uruguayxxi.gub.uy/guide/descargas/Set%20up%20a%20company.pdf
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the very least, need a 680mm ( or at worst, 650mm ) 2u ( most economical bang/buck variant ) chassis with NO welded-in internal partitions
ben_vulpes: will read
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: cedula gets you ability to open corporate bank accounts, i hope? << I would help with this. Doing it with the US Passport would have negated having a corp.
BingoBoingo: If you are looking for a temporary liquidity source though, have you considered pete_dushenski? He might be interested in the opportunity to buy BTC from Pizarro.
ben_vulpes: i think the liquidity is handled but i'll keep that in mind
ben_vulpes: this guide has some good chuckles: gotta denominate corporate accounts in local currency but all fees are denominated in usd for one
BingoBoingo: It's the flyer the government produces as gringo bait
mircea_popescu: the search for actually useful local accts specialists as fruitless as search for w/e, electronic parts supplioers ?\
asciilifeform: iirc BingoBoingo found what looked like one, turned out to be expensive nuisance
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: sounded exactly like http://trilema.com/2010/aventurile-zilei/#selection-49.0-49.1103
asciilifeform: ( with parts, the fact that they have to arrive in the country with either 300% tax , or in submarine, or up an arse, at least partly explains. but why there are ~no sane accounting folx , remains puzzler )
asciilifeform: possibly the 2 are connected -- no serious commerce, ergo no specialists
BingoBoingo: Here's another gringo fixer's guide on the incorporation process, but his own fees which he neglects to list are still more expensive http://www.mondaq.com/Uruguay/x/583558/Corporate+Commercial+Law/Forming+A+Company+In+Uruguay
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that english material is a leper's bell
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/l7jD6/?raw=true
asciilifeform: 'idjit gringos come here, to be eaten'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because nobody ever told them they better be useful. so they're "nice" or w/e.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( with parts, the fact that they have to arrive in the country with either 300% tax , or in submarine, or up an arse, at least partly explains. but why there are ~no sane accounting folx , remains puzzler ) << Now in May there appear to be better options accessible than in december, but they don't have languages other than Spanish in their toolkit.
mircea_popescu: de-colonialism has its disadvantages
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i suspect that english material is a leper's bell << It is
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, this is very common. but now your spanish is better.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure, but to approach them on behalf of Pizarro, Pizarro's gotta have something for me to ask of them.
mircea_popescu: this is not so clear.
BingoBoingo: Well, sure. I speak friendly to at least one confirmed accountant at the cowork. There are definitely more candidates I can audition than in December.
mircea_popescu: you will sooner or later run into issues you need actual professional help with. just like the cold.
BingoBoingo: Yes
BingoBoingo continuing to wait while management digests http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809694
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 21:17 BingoBoingo: ^ ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform I have proposed a start for negotiations on a compensation package through February 2019 for your consideration here: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/#fn1-1909
ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814751, did you look at this tool https://github.com/BertoldVdb/sdtool?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 15:24 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found that otp microsd cards exist!! should substantially lower the labour cost of maintaining rockchip cluster. IF i can actually find a vendor !
asciilifeform: ave1: is the meaning of 'true hardware write protect' unclear ?!!
asciilifeform: NO SOFTWARE TOGGLES
asciilifeform: i know, for a fact, that the software-settable flag, is software-clearable.
ave1: no it is not unclear, it's reported to be unresettable everywhere and I do not have a card laying about here.
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall reading of a means to reset said flag. unfortunately, cannot now find, grrr
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/S8cXO/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: so to enloggify BingoBoingo's opening ask, that's ~1.9 btc let's call them bonuses and then another ~.7 btc in salary over the year (all at current rates), is that right?
asciilifeform: ave1: even if by all appearances it's a truly perma-settable bit, i'd still muchly prefer a card where i can actually toggle the WR leg of the eeprom
asciilifeform: ave1: consider the central idea in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1801998 thread.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 11:59 ascii_lander: 'we do not have isolation' is more honest than 'we have cisco-powered isolation'
ave1: yes, I see, unfortunately the pins do not have a rx/tx like serial
asciilifeform: i was speaking of the ~back~ end of the thing. not front.
asciilifeform: inside there is a commercial flash ic. it has a WR leg.
asciilifeform: but not brought out, apparently ever, Because Reasons (tm)(r)
ave1: aha
trinque: looks like sandisk and a few others released some 2008-2010ish, and then radio silence
mircea_popescu: !!pay danielpbarron 0.0164342
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fSk3I/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, why do you suspect pizarro can pay something like that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's some argument (cheapness) for including one single antifuse rather than making the whole thing out of them.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wasn't even thinking of asking for true antifuse sd card , considering that antifuse roms have been unavailable since early 1990s ( see prev thread re subj )
asciilifeform: not for love or money can you get'em, other than laughably tiny old-stock things (1kB and below)
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: all 'otp roms' sold today are actually eproms with the write leg tied to ground.
asciilifeform: erase leg, rather.
mircea_popescu: is this something we could maybe do ?
asciilifeform: and they suffer same bitrot and single-event problems as eeproms/'flash', incl. 'throw it out after 20 yrs'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we had any fab capacity to speak of, these'd be the priority items : 1) large homogeneous fpga 2) otp roms 3) 1+2
mircea_popescu: is there some way to slice the wipe leg off the assemblage
asciilifeform: nope, sd card is apparently monocrystalline
mircea_popescu: isn't the leg brought out to the contacts ?
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: "leg". sux.
asciilifeform: if it were, we wouldn't have this thread
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo, why do you suspect pizarro can pay something like that ? << The idea is that there is a path for pizarro to get revenue. If pizarro can´t afford something closer to that than the current arrangement, I suspect they can't afford to keep someone in Uruguay.
asciilifeform: >> http://bunniefoo.com/bunnie/30c3-controller.png << subj
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, obviously people working at something should pick the rewards of their work. what i don't get is why are you formulating this split in absolute rather than relative terms ?
mircea_popescu: saying "well, there's objective costs to $X, be it installing a rack or being in uy, these have to be paid" is one thing ; but seems you're discussing another thing, and how can you, i, ben_vulpes , anyone else transform "future" into "btc value" ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: They asked me to put forward an idea. It isn't the best idea, but it one that makes the idea of continuing to stomach life in a country populated by a people I hate and who are culturally programmed to piss me off. I would like them to structure something they can afford instead of biting on this proposal.
mircea_popescu: seemed to me the way ben_vulpes was going was towards a yes/no type response. aanyways.
BingoBoingo: At least it would be a response.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/ << Trilema - The retard's handshake
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, for my entirely idle curiosity, what sort of time occupancy have you seen in the past month ? 12.5% ie hour/day ? more ? less ?
BingoBoingo: In the past month, aside from asciilifeform's visit roughly and hour to and hour and a half a day on strictly pizzaro business, minus time awaiting instructions. For the couple weeks after the ben_vulpes visit there was a consecutive run of days well over 8 hours. The work has been incredibly bursty in its flavor.
mircea_popescu: so we could say part of your problem here is idleness.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, why do you have an idle resource on the ground ? this is what management is, yes ? keeping the mills fed ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo will , i suspect , have all 8 hands full when the full-scale rockchiptron is brought online and tentants come/go regularly
asciilifeform: at least initially , until population settles in
BingoBoingo works on drinking the ocean
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it is. i have neglected sales and putting BingoBoingo to work on that and conveying to him what he needs to know in order to do the shared hosting work that has until now landed on my plate. with the manual i published yesterday im now in a position to hand off new shared shell customers to him, and am looking at a list of hosting forums i put together for filtering over the past two days.
ben_vulpes: the active filtering i'd like to put in is either a regular set of eyeballs (BingoBoingo's, or the mentioned-tangentially sales guy to hire) on the "design" corners of these hosting forums to pm our ads for shells on the shared server to folks who are building websites directly
ben_vulpes: or a mircea_popescu fetlife-style automated PMer to do the outbound
ben_vulpes: hostingdiscussion.com at least has a user-enumerable db, but i don't know if an automated approach would get pizarro blacklisted, or even if we care, right? can make another account and pick up where left off.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recall, lobbes offered to work sales on commission
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i recall
asciilifeform: really i advise ben_vulpes to get that chalkboard. quite srsly, i do not say this to make ben_vulpes cry, but because it is genuinely a win
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, understand that merely clear signs that management is aware of problems and working on them, and open communications are a larger morale boost than pretty much anything else. it's how folk manage to man pill boxes, which suck for any other criteria.
asciilifeform: ^
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so we could say part of your problem here is idleness. << Indeed. Laying groundwork to start drinking webhosting ocean.
ben_vulpes: noted, is obvious when put so.
mircea_popescu: i have absolutely no trouble at all repelling http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#comment-117928 "o noes, sky is fall't" ~for a reason~.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i also have open problems that you could probably help with. for instance, i am in search of a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814828 , and of 32 ( or at worst , 2 x 16 ) port GB/s ~bare pcb~ ethernet switches that don't come with 'minumal order 1000' chinesium insult
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 17:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the very least, need a 680mm ( or at worst, 650mm ) 2u ( most economical bang/buck variant ) chassis with NO welded-in internal partitions
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, let me put it even sharper : you have a man who conquered a drinking habit in a position which regularily drives men to drink ; and he's complained about not having sane AA there what, twice ?
mircea_popescu: management is playing with people's lives, one's well advised to be considerate.
asciilifeform spent week in the company of BingoBoingo , and confirms that the most serious problem currently is morale , d00d needs some light in his pillbox
ben_vulpes: lobbes, and BingoBoingo while i'm at it since i want to get you on the same train, what kind of commission makes sense to you for flogging shared shells?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i hate to add to already tall pile of puzzlers, but at some point we will have to seriously consider the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814695 item .
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:49 asciilifeform: the only serious weakness of shared-unix is what happens when you start populating it with randos, rather than the l1/tight-l2 currently living there
ben_vulpes appends to whiteboard
asciilifeform: i suppose i gotta illustrate.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can you tell me what kind of bad behavior can be monitored for and how much of a pain it is to set up?
mircea_popescu: the answer to that is no.
asciilifeform: given an account on a linux box, e.g. asciilifeform ( who is not in particularly top shape re subj ) can get root, in a few days or few wks (max) of sweat
mircea_popescu: you'll end up with rebuilsing the vps you fled from.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it.
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentallty, ~still~ doesn't work ; but doesn't work ellaborately and expensively)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: look back to the thread where i gave the current shared-box scheme: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-3-22#317360
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-22 17:08 asciilifeform: i for instance do not see why , if it's wot l1 people living in it, it has to expend the cpu overhead to pretend-isolate and vm-ize. why not simply traditional unix accounts.
BingoBoingo: The easy, inconvenient cut is a second 1U box for the crowd. Web panel, quotas, frequent regular backups, and maybe a hot spare box..
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the problem set in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814702 is unfortunately not limited to 'hose the box'
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 14:51 asciilifeform: fact of the matter is that shared unix tenant can create problems for the others ( without necessarily revealing himself as the source of said problem ) quite trivially . ( vps is moar 'nobus' in this respect, generally the 'escapes' are not public )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so even user-level isolation is a lie on linux?
asciilifeform: 100%
ben_vulpes: a few weeks of sweat to get root?
asciilifeform: it's roughly same isolation as the lock on your house's bathroom.
trinque: all you need is a privesc in one of the services running as root, or kernel-side bug, or..
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'weeks' can mean 'minutes' in practice, if the planets align
asciilifeform: trinque has it
ben_vulpes: does this extend to ftp users as well?
asciilifeform: in the current scheme, you dun even need privescs to cause headaches for people, users can connect to each other's sql db listeners etc
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, yes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is possible to set up ftp properly .
mircea_popescu: you still get to time the machine ; and whosoever times the machine owns the machine.
ben_vulpes: how the fuck am i to meaningfully sell shared shells on this thing then, if anyone who pays for a month can get in and wreck everyone else on it.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform for instance has a rough draft of an adatronic ftpd . but this is not production-ready )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, what, they told you twas gonna be easy ? come up with something!!11
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is the reason why i even built the rc pilot cluster; because it is a (laborious, and expensive, but genuine) solution to $problem
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, simplest solution is, periodic backups and not giving a shit. if it craps out reinstall.
asciilifeform: if ben_vulpes or anybody else can think of a better pill -- asciilifeform is all ears.
ben_vulpes: i had nfi linux user isolation was actually completely broken.
mircea_popescu: why not ?!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i also have open problems that you could probably help with. for instance, i am in search of a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814828 , and of 32 ( or at worst , 2 x 16 ) port GB/s ~bare pcb~ ethernet switches that don't come with 'minumal order 1000' chinesium insult << Will get to searching. Thoughts on a good way to perform epoxy potting on my personal FUCKGOAT that would be actually transparent
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 17:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at the very least, need a 680mm ( or at worst, 650mm ) 2u ( most economical bang/buck variant ) chassis with NO welded-in internal partitions
BingoBoingo: instead of amber tinted?
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's not completely broken. it'\s completely breakable, which is a different thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's for sake of argument ignore other problems than 'whole box craps out' (i.e. particular users being hosed, by unknown party, with no recourse ) . how to determine which customer is culprit ?
trinque has to run, but behold usg.aws lacks arm hosting
trinque: imho *that* is the product
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you guess.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have a jar of clear and nonexothermic potting epoxy right here. unfortunately it probably would not make it through airport
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: guess ?! 'which of 1500 users , hey let me throw a dart ' ? lol
mircea_popescu: yup.
mircea_popescu: how did you think luzerhosting works ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 3M has a branch office here, if you can pass me the name of the specific product that would be swell.
mircea_popescu: same way "moderation" of fetlife works.
mircea_popescu: facebook, youtube, whatever.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dp270
BingoBoingo: ty
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i confess that i dun see why this is a pressing item for BingoBoingo . but it could come in handy.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not insisting or even proposing this insanity be continued. i am merely stating the world.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: keep in mind, it ain't cheap
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on "time the box"? leaking of user passwords by timing sidechannel?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's not pressing, punchlist item for next rennovation of personal workstation whenever that happens.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: a drum is something like 2k usd
asciilifeform: 400 mL -- about a hundy.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, the machine itself, hardware-wise, is incapable of multiuser. it leaks its memory via cache timings on 3 or 4 different layers ; it lacks its state via nic delays, it leaks like a sieve.
mircea_popescu: these are not fixable in software anymore than a dirty couch can be cleanned by photographic it with the right angle lens.
mircea_popescu: the killer micro was simply never designed for this.
ben_vulpes: so seems like ftp for l2 heathens, and shell for known l2 and heathens who bathe/stick around for a while and get friendly is a plausible perforation
BingoBoingo: If they bathe and stick around they are likely to end up in L2 before too long
BingoBoingo: *known L2
mircea_popescu: making it obvious that owning the box is neither glorious nor productive may be sufficient deterrent. who even knows.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: pretty much what i'm driving at
mod6: qwX19@^8vFg
mod6: goddamnit
mircea_popescu: lol!
mod6: damn kvm keeps gettin me.
mircea_popescu: are you getting enough sleep mod6 ?
mod6: no
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform spent week in the company of BingoBoingo , and confirms that the most serious problem currently is morale , d00d needs some light in his pillbox << That was actually a high point for the morale. The boost carried over well into the next week. Definitely the high point of the post-bedbug era.
mod6: Alright, since this keeps pressing here...
mod6: BingoBoingo: The raise you propse is 1 BTC at end of February of 2019, and ~8k USD now right?
mod6: And furthermore, this raise does not include whatever expenses you would require to get an apartment in .uy, correct?
BingoBoingo: mod6: The core components I am looking for are 1) A lump sum now or in the near future so that when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814853 comes I am not caught horribly undercapitalized. 2) an increase in the daily per diem to an amount that includes breathing room 3) Something sort of future award contingent on staying here. And apartment was not figured into that because it is unclear if Pizarro wants to get an apartment or if
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 18:24 mircea_popescu: you will sooner or later run into issues you need actual professional help with. just like the cold.
BingoBoingo: Pizarro wants to get BingoBoingo an apartment.
ben_vulpes: what is the difference?
mod6: Here's the problem. We obviously need you / want you to stay. I'm told you've been doing a good job there. We have limited money at this time, as obviously, we just got into business here; and we're still trying to figure out how to get to break-even. I think the 1 BTC at the end of next february is something we can do for ya.
mod6: As far as the 8000 now, this really cuts into our available cash flow. Aside from the plainly stated fact that we then also, aside from paying bills, need to figure out how to translate another ~1 BTC in to USD and then have someone wire/WU it down to you.
ben_vulpes: mod6: "lump sum of BTC equivalent to 7500 usd", so no conversion necessary
BingoBoingo: mod6: Honestly the whatever happens at the end of next February part is actually the one I feel the most flexible on. For the immediate capitalization component I am perfectly capable of recieving BTC.
mod6: How about this. $7500, payable in BTC monthly, over the next 9 months?
mod6: That should give you some cash to work with, and allow us to not have to crush our immediate cash position on the balance sheet.
ben_vulpes: mod6: doesn't really make a difference to the books, a liability is a liability. it's going to show up on the balance sheet regardless.
mod6: I would like the draw this out a bit, instead of a big lumpsum payment now.
ben_vulpes: mk then
mod6: Would that work for ya BingoBoingo? ben_vulpes ? asciilifeform ?
BingoBoingo: My own fear of encountering a big unavoidable expense requiring a lumpsum is why It's part of the ask.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: wouldja be willing to take an incentive payment next may gated on helping me filter the ocean for shared shell customers?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: How would that be structured.
mod6: We've been handling things like dentist/doctor up until now right? Or have you been paying for that out of pocket?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Well pizarro got billed for the dentist. The doctor is out of my pocket. Part of the idea is getting these things off of Pizarro's line and into my own.
mod6: Ok understood.
mod6: I think 5000 now is what I'm willing to do, payable in btc, and then the next 2500 (also payable in btc) September 1st.
mod6: That sound ok for ya?
BingoBoingo: What kind of adjustment to the per diem would you pair that with?
mod6: Sorry?
mod6: I don't follow.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1815003 << Contains three elements. You offered a proposal on the first part.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 20:40 BingoBoingo: mod6: The core components I am looking for are 1) A lump sum now or in the near future so that when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814853 comes I am not caught horribly undercapitalized. 2) an increase in the daily per diem to an amount that includes breathing room 3) Something sort of future award contingent on staying here. And apartment was not figured into that because it is unclear if Pizarro wants to
mod6: ben_vulpes: help me out here.
BingoBoingo: The board and management are free to move around on all three parts to construct something palatable.
ben_vulpes: mod6: he wants, reasonably, a counteroffer on all three axes.
mod6: Yeah, #2, and #3 are not a part of the 7500 total.
ben_vulpes: you want flexibility on the thing he's most insistent on, i'm crunching numbers on an incentive program, so he's leaning on you to make up the difference in the second axis.
mod6: We will still need to increase your overall $1800 per month (or whatever it is, so you can have pants and shoes, etc.), and an apartment was in the discussion as well.
mod6: What I want, is a commitment for no further renegotiations until at least this time of next year.
ben_vulpes: yeah in re the apartment, BingoBoingo you want to live in the dorms forever or why wasn't that in your ask
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> yeah in re the apartment, BingoBoingo you want to live in the dorms forever or why wasn't that in your ask << It's something I am flexible on.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> What I want, is a commitment for no further renegotiations until at least this time of next year. << That is the goal. It's also why I started the push this month before any more machines are holding me hostage in the cabinet.
ben_vulpes: i'd rather pay increased living costs either as a flat fee to get into the apartment or monthly on the rental so that you can cook for yourself and get off the street food
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: would own quarters move the needle significantly on morale?
BingoBoingo: That is a substantial unknown.
ben_vulpes: you've astonishing will to keep yourself together around the addicts but i worry about the cost of keeping clenched constantly
BingoBoingo: The people everywhere bu the hostel fire the disgust receptors far more frequently than the ones inside.
ben_vulpes: sure, but i'm talking about quality of existence here. own place to shit, own food prep area, not having to constantly piss on preferred chairs. it buys security for effects, and calm of mind that i think BingoBoingo underestimates (unless he is a very different animal from what i imagine)
mod6: BingoBoingo: how much of your savings did you personally spend on this adventure?
mod6: (dollar terms)
BingoBoingo: Well, I have been living out of suitcases for nearly half a year
mod6: It's worrying to me that I offered to pay this 7500 out over the next year, which doesn't seem to excite you, then I offered to pay some now, some in 90 days, that's not taking either it seems.
mod6: So what do you need 7500 for now?
mod6: If its to repay your savings you spent on this whole adventure, then you'll get your money.
mod6: That I can understand. But I don't want to give you 7500 to go and spend on hookers and blow.
BingoBoingo: mod6: I didn't object to the 2 part split.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo struck asciilifeform as a sensible fella, who won't blow whole wad on the proverbial h&b. more like , wants to maybe go on shore leave some day; and not to be 1 broken leg or frivolous charges filed by city hall (like they did to him in usa) away from penury
mod6: So that'd be ok with ya? 5000 now, 2500 september 1st?
mod6: Especially if you deem that it makes you "whole" from all the blood, sweat, tears, and cash you put into this adveture. Which, we all very much appreciate.
BingoBoingo: mod6: That would, From an FX risk perspective though the even monthly split is a killer.
mod6: Ah, you think that the september 1st payment will be a killer cause btc will be lower, ok.
mod6: Or are you saying, something else here? Not sure.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: elaborate re what's wrong with normal btc ( you can sell it now, or later, or convert to whatever suits you )
BingoBoingo: I am saying the "<mod6> So that'd be ok with ya? 5000 now, 2500 september 1st?" is not objectionable. Breaking it down into even payments is objectionable.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: elaborate re what's wrong with normal btc ( you can sell it now, or later, or convert to whatever suits you ) << Normal BTC is fine for this, but for pizarro's sake I am denominating this in Dosiedoes
mod6: Hmm? well, i am saying "5000" now to give you some padding, and feel better about it, and then 2500 later to help us get our feet a bit.
mod6: I suppose we could do 2500 now, 2500 end of july, and 2500 sept 1st or something if that seems more agreeable.
BingoBoingo: The now/September split is preferrable to others that have been proposed.
mod6: ben_vulpes, asciilifeform you guys ok with that?
ben_vulpes: sure.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: am i crazy in trying to push for an apartment for you?
mod6: Everyone wins: BB gets his raise, and 1 BTC end of feb 2019, and we get to hang on to a bit of cash for the summer to help ouselves out.
ben_vulpes: mod6: i
ben_vulpes: mod6: haven't settled on next year's incentive payment yet
mod6: Alright.
ben_vulpes: gotta figure a) whether the apartment thing is crazy for some reason i don't understand b) structure for next years incentive
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: am i crazy in trying to push for an apartment for you? << You aren't but the monthly expense of an apartment isn't so different from the hostel+cowork.
mod6: I do think we should get an apt for him, I've stayed in hostels before and I can't imagine staying there for 6 months.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: there are not insignificant upfront costs iirc
BingoBoingo: Right
mod6: And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: help me enumerate these costs?
mod6: BingoBoingo: bud, you need your own place to hang your hat, you're a Lord of the Republic, not a random street orc.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion. << I am willing to table the future incentive so you can come up with something more favorable to Pizarro than 1 integer BTC.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: help me enumerate these costs? A substantial guarentee upfront (3-6 months rent) and then furnishing the apartment.
BingoBoingo: brb, low battery
ben_vulpes: so that's some 800/mo at the bare minimum; an upfront of around 4.8k at that rate
ben_vulpes: plus table, chairs, bed, cutlery, hot water heater?
mod6: there's a guy we know in BSAS who can hook you up with a cage and whipping post/cross thing too if you need 'em.
ben_vulpes: lol
mod6: can always fabricate your own too, just sayin', if your in a pinch.
mod6: Anyway, ok. So we still need to settle the year-incentive payment.
ben_vulpes: mod6: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-17#358008
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-17 21:23 BingoBoingo: <mod6> And the per-diem money, if we can get it to "reasonable bump" per month, is a done-deal in my opinion. << I am willing to table the future incentive so you can come up with something more favorable to Pizarro than 1 integer BTC.
mod6: Yeah, maybe we could commit to some amount now, then build in a bouns structure for sales met or something.
mod6: I think you were thinking about this already, ya?
mod6: I've gotta run here. I'll bbl
ben_vulpes: yeah, it's fuckin tricky, though. i'm trying to estimate what could reasonably be packed into uy1 from a shared shell and ftp perspective, but i think 20 shell accounts and 100 lower-end ftp-only accounts is probably the max that box can carry without overbooking it, and if we can get to that point within a year i'll be pleased as punch, as it'll cover a significant fraction of the whole pizarro operation's
ben_vulpes: expenses and would be willing to put down a half btc incentive if we hit that. i'm also considering that the apartment rental is going to be maybe 20% more expensive than the combined cowork and bunk, and propose moving some of the end-of-year incentive forward in time to pay for that.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> yeah, it's fuckin tricky, though. i'm trying to estimate what could reasonably be packed into uy1 from a shared shell and ftp perspective, but i think 20 shell accounts and 100 lower-end ftp-only accounts is probably the max that box can carry without overbooking it, and if we can get to that point within a year i'll be pleased as punch, as it'll cover a significant fraction of the whole pizarro operation's << Sweet
mod6: So, BingoBoingo : Sounds like we have most of a plan then.
BingoBoingo: It does indeed
mod6: Can I get your assurances that this won't come up again for a long time, at least a year or ever? We're just dumping cash. And we're not going to be in business long at all.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> plus table, chairs, bed, cutlery, hot water heater? << Whiteboard
mod6: I'm not made of BTC like some people, and we are still way under where we need to be at.
mod6: So my willingness to keep putting money into this is contingent on whether or not we can even reach profitibility. Which we'll never get there if "raises" and other "surpises" keep coming ujp.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> Can I get your assurances that this won't come up again for a long time, at least a year or ever? We're just dumping cash. And we're not going to be in business long at all. << You have my assurance. This discussion was started in Februay had been tabled without activity since then. Hence reviving it when we have a path to get to where we need to be, but before we get another infusion of iron down here.
mod6: Alright then.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: you are now going to go and start canvassing apartments pricing concretely, yes?
BingoBoingo: But like the IP situation and the BTC/fiat conduit situation, there are limits on how long these discussions can be tabled.
ben_vulpes: true of everything in this world
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I will start that, also inquire about setting up a corporation, and register accounts on the filter feeding forums so they can start getting some age.
ben_vulpes: great, i mentioned hostingdiscussion.com , webhostingtalk.com, forums.hostsearch.com to you, also warriorforum.com from mircea_popescu's mentions once upon a time. i'll dig up some others as well.
ben_vulpes: i disqualified some others for ~zero activity in the past two years, but haven't ruled out hostsearch or warriorforum yet
ben_vulpes bbl
mod6: Sounds good BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: achtung phuctor readers! about to remove 676 spurious factors ( they equal their moduli, and are factors of no others) from the db; these crept in in late 2016
asciilifeform: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factor/4913 << example
asciilifeform: ^ from 2018 ! ( asciilifeform very recently fixed the corner case in bernstein which permitted this kind of thing )
asciilifeform: aaalso about to do a primality walk, where (ditto from corner case) a prime p is known where m/p is a prime q but q was not registered.
asciilifeform: this should make the displayed results 100% free of wtf.
asciilifeform: 3.. 2... 1...
asciilifeform: aaaand they're gone.
BingoBoingo: Congrats asciilifeform
asciilifeform: not so much 'congrats', this was a disgraceful eggog that sat for waay too long
asciilifeform: but ty BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today is a day of cleaning where it was settled that whiteboard is practically an L1 (and aspiring L2) essential. Happy festivus.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in curio chest, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E20100393E2E24EB45823FBCAA258E7F3FEE15295A324C0E6E1854DE51159884 << 13338-bit modulus, 6667-bit exponent

2018-5-16 | 2018-5-18