mircea_popescu: you ~could~ add a deedbot command like !!pending which'd list all pending items and the estimated next send ("Next tx push on Fri, Apr 14 at 8:14 pm -- in 25hours). gives people something to do with their time.
trinque: isn't always going to be the case that I'm next to the machine at the same time
trinque: I'd actually like to find a path to the hot wallet sooner than later, for reasons of getting large enough
mircea_popescu: kinda the dilemma of "democratic society" aka "people have rights / are best judges of how to deploy their own resources" etc. you end up with the walmart world and either you chase the britney spears fanbase or else can't cover costs.
trinque: probably just going to set a ceiling on it, and grow the ceiling over time
trinque: let whatever comes in as revenue trickle over into a rainy day fund if a wallet gets popped
mircea_popescu: trinque the line i was going on with the "what odds do you give" is that CDB is indelible from the book, stays there in red. cost of carry of capital, goods or otherwise, and so on.
mircea_popescu: you're stuck investing $hotwallet-size * $failure-odds into the business that it could be, like it or not. just like your time.
mircea_popescu: now, i am in the fortunate position of having valuable experience : bitbet's hotwallet was 1btc ; and it was never popped.
mircea_popescu: (1 btc worth, it was actually 10, but they came to about 5-10k or such)
mod6: Speaking of which, ben_vulpes, let me know what you think, but to help keep track of these grants, I think the applicants for a Foundation grant, should write up a small document outlining: 1) How much they are requesting, 2) What the intended purpose is for the grant, 3) The Duration (if any, i.e. one year, or one-time, etc), 4) The current block height / date. 5) Signed with WoT Key.
mod6: Upon approval these can be deeded so we can keep track. I'm starting to have a hard time remembering them all!
mircea_popescu: well, the idea is that indeed he's on the hook, for a particular type of cost. obviously writing code, reviewing code, testing things, design, graphic or systems, all sorts of things are useful and valuable, and they take people's time. if you spend an hour reading through patches you can't spend that hour petting your dog/kitten/kid whatever.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, you know aforehand, when you sit down to read through a patch, that you're gonna spend so long with it, and you'll stop when you stop.
mircea_popescu: whereas this, it's more a case of carrying a knife up your ass. it decides when and what.
mod6: I view his work on deedbot & wallet as highly-necessary and critical. So you kinda read my mind when you asked us above.
mircea_popescu: specifically being able to say, "oh, yeah, segwit, whatever, the power ranger's version of deedbot's !!pay, right ?" is a tmsr-wide benefit.
mod6: You're totally making sense. It could be a reoccuring grant; needs to be re-newed yearly (or some interval). I'm not in the best position to have an idea as to what is a sensible amount for the interval.
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing if it covers his original hotwallet it's all roses.
mircea_popescu: if he doesn't get popped, it needs no renewal, it's permanent. and if he does... well...
mod6: My initial thought was that the Foundation would say, offer a one time engineering fee of 1 BTC. And then also provide insurance for the hot wallet to the tune of say, 1 BTC.
mod6: Maybe that's not as reasonable as what you're suggesting though -- a reoccuring grant.
mircea_popescu: just give him a bitcoin to seed his hotwallet, and call it a day.
mod6: I'd be fine with that. I'd even go a bit further and throw in some extra funding for the development, historical and forward.
mircea_popescu: if he manages to lose it we can have words about maybe another one ; but it'd better not be this year.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you can't afford to pay for development. i appreciate the sentiment, and i'm not saying his work is negligible, but if you count all the IMMENSE amount of devwork the republic has produced, however you add it up you'll either a) be on the hook for more than the foundation has, significantly more, or else b) you'll be stuck taking lowball to the level of insulting people.
ben_vulpes: trinque: rang, asked me to pass on that a) he doesn't need help insuring the hotwallet, and that b) he's thinking really hard about how much of linux and the rest of the stack to insure on his own back, and the moral hazard of doing so
ben_vulpes: (look gossipd works, asciilifeform can take a nap)
ben_vulpes: thoughts topmost on my stack (after apache arcana) are about the implications of the foundation backing the 'tbtf' initiatives. i know that someone must, but going from a rate of zero in however many years to two in two quarters is worth pausing and thinking for.
mod6: Not as much ``tbtf initiatives'' as it is just the larger Republic, neh?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-19 01:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686438 <<< yes, because you're applying the pretense of statics to a dynamic situation. trinque 's metaphore is very much factual : we were paradopped on hot coals, by the FAULT, inexcusable, and indelible, of our parents. they should have taken care that we do not get dropped on hot coals, as children barely able to move. they did not, and derelict in their first and pract
trinque: I think a 1BTC ceiling would be a satisfactory tolerance for loss from the hot wallet, which I would be able to eat. which is not a promise to eat the thing's losses endlessly either, but on the airgap-wallet side I have enough confidence in the setup that my tolerance is higher.
mod6: I'm fine with this if you are. Certainly wern't trying to force anything on you by any means.
trinque: naw, it's a compliment that you'd consider doing that.
mircea_popescu: "A couple weeks later, I get accosted by some drunk chick who heard from a friend that I think women shouldnt be allowed to speak. She argued with me alongside one of her friends that is, I argued some perfectly valid points, while she got increasingly beligerant; much to the friends dismay, who even expressed that I was coming off as the victUAL". jeez this guy's saturday nights!
trinque: myeah withdrawal slips have definitely been cat-diddled along the way
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it occurs to me you should prolly wear your scandalous shirt in your header or something.
mircea_popescu: also, you should probably come do karaoke here. for one thing, there's hookers. for the other thing, they're so enamoured with the idea of english they'll like it whatever it is (not that they'd know). and soo n.
mircea_popescu: "Darwin also went to The Master's College library and checked out a stack of MacArthur's books about 18 inches high. Normally, they would not allow so many volumes to be lent out all at one time, but in this case, for some reason, they made an exception." << "they were secretly hoping he steals them"
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-14 01:17 mircea_popescu: trinque you might be overdramatizing ; what, you think i've never lost a team ? what am i, made of pure energy ? shit happens ; gotta have plans in place and move on.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798160 <-- I can definitely see this angle. my point is that by giving up the "general-purpose" pretense altogether, the system designer can qualitatively reduce the implicit trust in code running in the system. so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798161 but moreover, one would not expect to find e.g. a pdf processing library in bitcoin node os, as "bitcoin node" can be specced all the way from
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 16:20 mircea_popescu: now then, a "general purpose operating system" is "that set of code which is trusted implicitly", "as long as it makes no particular assumptions about the rest of the code that will run on the machine".
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 16:21 mircea_popescu: the moment we bake in the assumption that "this is a bitcoin node", suddenly the os is no longer gp ; we'll want a special fs in there etc.
spyked: user interface, through the os and down to hardware components. which brings us back to the way engineering was done in the olden days, before that weed overdose, i.e. http://archive.is/TRrOE
spyked: every time OS insists on pulling in "udev" or "tls" or whatever other packages (tons of examples in the logs), it's because someone wanted to add more "general-purpose" scaffolding.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798435 <-- not sure it's my place to comment on this, but it sounds a lot like the "academic grant" trap that I've fallen into at some point. consider this: the abstraction of money exists so that humans can attribute economic value to things. on the other side of the problem, "creating valuable things for humanity" or for "no concrete labour obligations" are not economically quantifiable (any value,
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:22 zx2c4: the reason is actually, "so that i can have a fixed income without any concrete labor obligations"
spyked: including zero, can pay "no concrete labour obligations", neh?). this is why academic grants and giving away \infty btc like that is such a waste and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798420 . and this is also why "get into business", because it puts your skin in the game and forces you to determine the value of whatever you're selling.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:16 mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you'd be terribly worse off, and so would be the bitcoin ecosystem.
spyked: and just to be clear re "economic value": the whole system of academic grants is based upon the lie that "there are enough resources to satisfy everyone". well, there aren't, tough luck. which reduces grant proposals to a very sophisticated way of begging, i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vVpsJnbq3A
a111: Logged on 2018-04-02 01:57 lobbes: ^^ q1 auction bot billz (slow quarter!). Mainly for accounting purposes; no rush on collecting due to eulora servers being down and the fact that the sums are a mere 96 satoshi each
BingoBoingo: ascii_lander: You have two locations of la heladeria la cigale near you. Roque Grassas 845 is nominally closer, but Juan Benito Blanco esq Miguel Barrio is a straight shot from where you are at.
BingoBoingo: Or if you wait to get to the datacenter there's a few different ones here in the BingoBoingo part of town.
BingoBoingo: In MVD shopping there is yet another La Cigale, Freddo's and the grocery store Tienda Inglesa if you prefer your ice cream in volume.
BingoBoingo: Actually the closest place for icecream to you is on the same block. Walk around the corner to the gas station.
BingoBoingo: La Administración Nacional de Combustibles, Alcohol y Portland tends to stock rather decent food products in their outlets
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 15:35 BingoBoingo: david_francois: I noticed on of your trb nodes is perenially 100,000 blocks behind. Consider building a new bitcoind with either the asciilifeform or ben_vulpes aggression patches. Vastly improved sync behavior.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 15:44 david_francois: david_francois: yeah, i got a new server with a SSD raid, I'm planning on getting a update TRB node there, which should be more reliable
davout: should have synced by the end of next week
mircea_popescu: soo lobbes here's one for you : coupla reformed old hookers contemplate going to church. "should we put bras on you think ?" the other one looks out the window "yeah, prolly should, the weater looks moody."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799018 << the notion that there's such a thing or could be such a thing as "resonable expectation" of pre-existing userland on the basis of os is not unlike young women expecting fucking them means they get to reorganize your bathroom.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 09:49 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798160 <-- I can definitely see this angle. my point is that by giving up the "general-purpose" pretense altogether, the system designer can qualitatively reduce the implicit trust in code running in the system. so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798161 but moreover, one would not expect to find e.g. a pdf processing library in bitcoin node os, as "bitcoin node" can be spec
mircea_popescu: if you want a bathroom reorganizer you hire one specifically, and fucking is no license to organize bathrooms.
mircea_popescu: this "by os you mean preinstalled userland" is 100% windowsism, harking back to the time microsoft produced a userland package called "windows 3.1" and wanted to pretend itself in the os business (a field it arguable NEVER entered)
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 10:06 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798435 <-- not sure it's my place to comment on this, but it sounds a lot like the "academic grant" trap that I've fallen into at some point. consider this: the abstraction of money exists so that humans can attribute economic value to things. on the other side of the problem, "creating valuable things for humanity" or for "no concrete labour obligations" are not economically quant
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, you don't have a point. take measurement as a more general case. sure we can measure things, but a) we don't oblige everyone to measure everything all the time and b) we certainly don't insist on arbitrary precision.
mircea_popescu: so there's fellows going about who don't know the cm length of their penis ; and certainly not to the A.
mircea_popescu: it's indisputable that the work put in by various republian people is worth money ; and this constitutes an investment they made. nevertheless, how this is evaluated is rather an open question -- according to say zx2c4
mircea_popescu: s method there's at least half a dozen multi-k btc items about.
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with this, but as i pointed out, the foundation dun have 10k btc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799029 << anyway, i wouldn't simplify it quite to that point. obviously there's a pull and there's a push way to make money, and if i propose to some guy, "do x, get y" it's my push not his pull, and obviously if he wants to pull instead of waiting to b pushed aroundhe gotta do pull-y sorta things. but anyways.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 10:13 spyked: but in short, "stretched hand that doesn't tell a story doesn't get dole"
ascii_lander: in the dc, funnily enuff, on the way out : me:'this place wants to be fancy, americanistic' , then i lean onto the wall with the lift, and the floor number sign prolapses into the wall! i reach in to put it back, schlink, slice finger
ascii_lander: then we go into a shop , 'i'ma buy alcohol to disinfect in, and superglue', then we find alcohol : they sell actual ethyl. like civilized folx!!
mod6: <+ascii_lander> we unbent some of the bent moorings, assembled the rockchiptron (due for installation as early as tomorrow) << ok awesome
mod6: dang, sliced finger 'eh? not too bad i hope.
shinohai: Plot twist: ascii_lander gets mumps from cut finger, dies.
BingoBoingo: I just got used to all the metal here being sharp, forgot to warn
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 23:05 ascii_lander: met with BingoBoingo, who put up with my sleepwalking admirably, and showed around in the town ( which rocks, incidentally , apparently errywhere Off the Reservation rocks)
douchebag: ' +Jennnie │ let douchebag set my stuff up before u pay :3'
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: 'not shakespeare, but other man by that name'(tm)(r) eh
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, i mean, imagine the butthurt of the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1721049 fucktards when they finally wake up to the fact that they personally being imbecile "professional" and "not doing" does not mean anything whatsoever ; someone else will skin them alive and wear their skin as a glove.