a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:34 asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:36 phf: asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation
mircea_popescu: i'm naively assuming it wouldn't, but in fairness haven't actually looked into the gnarl.
mircea_popescu: (but, importantly, /dev/random === /dev/urandom is a fundamental ideological patch. fuck the fucking idiocy!)
mircea_popescu: there shall be ONE random. and if there isn't one, throw the shirt iron out with the garbage. and if there's "two", throw the "engineer" responsible out with the garbage.
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
diana_coman: ave1, why not add it as a .vpatch on the eucrypt tree?
diana_coman: ave1, at any rate, <pre> tags added, looks good
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860762 << that was the contemplated stat(), yes. the sad is that idjit unix does not have a general-purpose 'this block of program is atomic' primitive, and so other cpu can fuck you b/w the stat() and open() call ( tho phf did find a open() flag that supposedly atomicises )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 09:00 mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spa
asciilifeform: reading a legit /dev/random ( or FG, or any other device ) is a ~blocking~ op, potentially returns in a year if you're entropy-poor , or even rich but 9000 processes want it
asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
asciilifeform: but if i'm overwriting a 8TB disk prior to taking it to crematorium, i'd rather urandom, i dun presently have a 200M/sec rng
ave1: the painfull part was at the start when I did not know that crc used a reversed bit order and did not understand that the initial register has to be xored with the message (and not used as a kind of prepend)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This would be my first if it happens. My read is there's still time for National Party to get their shit together for the impending election. They have a celebrity MUGA candidate officially announcing in a few weeks.
BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
asciilifeform: mod6: i dun see any calls in the log. gonna write to the vendor shortly.
asciilifeform: mod6: did it go to eggog immediately or long-tone for a while ?
mircea_popescu: in other MCGA, yest spent lunch at table with three girls, at upscale italian place where there were three girls total. on the left, tableful of dudes. on the right, tableful of dudes. nobody said as much as zip, though i was openly playing with tits over cacciucco.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: keep in mind that 8xx only work from usa
mircea_popescu: though, logically, if we care enough about permanence rather than existence, more logical to also make euro free number, and add euro located respondent, and then criss-cross these on 2nd pass.
mircea_popescu: but imo by now this is getting overengineered. let's revisit it if/when becomes importanrt.
asciilifeform: currently i've nfi how to make eu phree pnojes, would have to look into it if it becomes interesting
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 09:40 ave1: well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu for supplying the idea and the picker-up
mircea_popescu: ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
mircea_popescu: this way we also get to explore that fabled tree resolution stuff in v.
mod6: btw... jurov and I are working on relocating the bitcoin.foundation website to the foundation's server in Pizarro. We're gonna get it set up, and test before we announce a cut-over date. Smooth transition, ftw.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> she'll be pleased to hear from you :) << Or give him an earful about logs to summarize
mircea_popescu: alf be like "hello ? oh, is this nicole ? JUST CALLED TO TELL YOU YOUR PHONE ANSWERING SUCKS! i mean... i was expecting it to improve but it turns out NOT"
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
mircea_popescu: have your own program designed correctly, so your own shitropy management thread ensures your own shitropy calls always return in constant time. YOUR JOB, as a shitropy eater.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i sat down & tried to think of a legit use for urandom, only came up with what's in the linked thread
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the mars
mircea_popescu: i am by now thoroughly allergic to this "downstream wants something upstream doesn't provide, so it's neither time to bring out the whips and chains upon the downstream nor to throw out the upstream and bake a new one, but instead let's hotwire the microwave ballast to the toaster."
mircea_popescu: right. otherwise it becomes this arbitrary-point anachronism in the vein of "grandmother should have fucked better sailors on the basis of how retarded granson is, and i can prove this by showing grandson was alive at an arbitrary point in time grandmother hadn't died yet."
mircea_popescu: "Texas Instruments delivers the first Advanced Scientific Computer (also called Advanced Seismic Computer), containing 4 pipelines with an 80 ns clock time. Vector instructions were memory-to-memory. Seven of these machines are later built, and an aggressive automatic vectorizing FORTRAN compiler is developed for them. It is the first machine to contain SECDED (Single Error Correction, Double Error Detection) memory. " << als
mircea_popescu: other than this, computing was pretty much 100% radar signal processing at the time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ti is epic example of sad -- at one time 1 of the largest semiconductor houses in usa, and built not only a lispm ( flopped ) but fairly beefy 80s micro ( ti-99/4 , also flopped )
asciilifeform: pissed away pretty much all market , despite at one time heavy muscle
asciilifeform: they had a line of pocket calculators, this was ( and as i understand, remains ) their flagship product. but! they somehow managed to lose their upstream ic vendors (they dun make much with own hands any moar) and nao reduced to selling same calc with ~ipnoje+emulator internals, and multi-second boot(yes) times
mircea_popescu: it's not so much "ti could have been the intel-microsoft/apple", but rather... it was. fucking was.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 17:37 ben_vulpes: so i dug this ti-89 platinum out of my closet last night to have something tactile to do arithmetic on and holy shit i'd completely forgotten about the input lag
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 22:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, in the above retelling, the 4->5 transition is the coup the grace. they couldn't "follow" each other ~because~, in this view, they were bereft of sufficient bandwith to in any sense communicate. so they couldn't, like, end up with all the same one substitute cuntcap.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of the
asciilifeform: in related lulz, and iirc we had a thread ( tho can't seem to unearth it ), urandom is sufficiently sad that when asciilifeform was running genetic algos / monte carlo / etc. crapolade , yrs ago, from it... would regularly fail to converge
a111: Logged on 2014-08-27 02:03 asciilifeform: bats_cd03: 'random' means one thing if you're running 'monte carlo' sims (digits of 'pi' work beautifully, as does 'A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates' (rand corp, 1955. book.))
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:41 asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta why i didn't even want a /dev/random, recall
mircea_popescu: if you want to keep slaves -- then YOU administer the keeping of the slaves. you don't ask sheriff of wherver county to implement the fugitive slave act. and so on. who wants prng makes prng, does not get to pretend "oh, kernel has this knob for me, '''im not entirely sure what it does lol'''" tongue in cheek bs, '''i just dress like this, it doesn't mean anyhthing''' etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kernel should read fg like it reads memory.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it behaves moar like a (very slowly moving) tape, tho, rather than memory
mircea_popescu: the only problem, to my eye, is that good abstraction is being hijacked by the female minded to implement bad abstraction, ie, instead of an insulation from detail abstraction becomes an insulation from responsibility.
asciilifeform: if kernel gotta be involved at all, it really ought to be simply to prevent multiple processes from seeing same FG bits.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was done ( twice ! ) , lol, see further downthread.
asciilifeform: speaking of trb, i dusted off an old conveyor item, phuctor-like www proggy that maps out noadez ( you give it ips, and it connects to'em, then issues 'version' and 'getaddr', and builds a graph )
asciilifeform: further in pipeline, will be a thing that actually asks'em for a randomly-picked block, and sees if it keccaks to what i've got.
mircea_popescu: (one perfectly legitimate way to build-towards-gossipd is to make the following item standard : every bot, upon receiving some registration order from anyone in owner's wot, will then respond to "any messages for me ?" with a "since yo ulast asked, here's all the loglines i have seen which highlighted your name".
diana_coman: and it fits perfectly the original idea of alternative, proper
mircea_popescu: note that it's not even illegal to blank the manifest or w/e. impolite, yes, but the spec allows.
mircea_popescu: sorta how physics perfectly permits the destruction of statues, even though people tend to not indulge.
asciilifeform: if yer nuking the manifest, good form would be to regenesis then imho. but yes
diana_coman: well yes, I can't quite see the point of blanking the manifest without regenesis since that's basically what it means
trinque: just didn't need preventing, as the bad form is screamingly apparent
diana_coman: so I guess I'll wait then on ave1's updated .vpatch then
asciilifeform: re upstack -- as it happens, 'trb-compat' is pretty easy to distinguish mechanically -- anybody who has 'services' field != 1, aint trb-compat.
asciilifeform: ( granted such a survey won't distinguish 'pseudos' or outright shams, the only item that can do it is an actual noad )
asciilifeform: the 1 'litmus test' i was able to think of , is the 'i pick a block hash and you gimme the block in <1s' algo.
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that a very large % of the current set of 'nodes' won't pass.
asciilifeform: btw trb could in principle be made entirely distinguishable, if we were to permit asking for a ~tx~ in 'inv' command ( currently prohibited , because prb nuked indexing , but could be brought into trb with no ill effect aside from some cpu cost )
mircea_popescu: yoiu know ? bar-disco-club the size of your bathroom. "wtf is wrong with you ?!" "we've been serving customers since 1972!" "yeah well when you finally add up the slices to one whole served customer let me know"
asciilifeform: dunno, ben_vulpes walked me into one in buenosaires that was bigger than my house, and ~empty
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you maybe confusing ben_vulpes and mthreat ? who did actually live there yes, but ended up importing gf, jet etc. mostly used local infrastructure for cheap pilot lessons.
mircea_popescu: the obvious and necessary (though unfortunate -- but fuck them for not speaking up at the right time) result of #metoo is daily beatings and gang rape for all campus and highschool dwellers. rotherham / durban style
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea is mostly to permit "journa" tards get a documentation point for their shitty markov chain processes of wordsalading ; and i suppose for the internet cucks to wank at.
BingoBoingo: Hopefully with productive bleeding to edge ratio
nicoleci: ok ill use the standardized greeting and potentially take notes.. and contact info if possible
mircea_popescu recalls in the early 2010s in romania, varios 0 value local niggers (who thought themselves important, much like the above mentioned Abdala Nobodyonastick) kept calling my secretary and having various brainstop moments on the phone.
mircea_popescu: because totally, if ro anontard is poor then everyone and everything he might see or hear is equally poor anontard.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 what do you think << yeah! Sounds good. I put together a thing, lemme dig it out...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 19:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
a111: Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
asciilifeform: meanwhile in upstack lulz: asciilifeform discovered that a good % of prb returns NOTHING to getaddr command. how the fuck do these people connect to peers ? ( i'ma guess some gavintronic-over-https curated nonsense )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Latest update from Venezuala is that none of the 4 cars in the garage work, but the motocicleta does.
hanbot: BingoBoingo: I went to send your WU, but either someone I traded with back in the days of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817953 that is based in Peru did Something Bad(tm), or else I dunno, your gf? In any case they're doing this entire song & dance about how "there's an alert" and "i gotta talk to a lawyer to justify...it's not clear what or why or to whom", entirely contentless fluff.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
hanbot: I don't think I'ma bother to debug their nonsense, as far as I'm concerned Western Union was never even marginally useful for any purpose I can think of. But obviously they did carefully write down all the details before not doing any work, so I dunno...advanced warning I guess? Not sure how much the shitpile can be relied on.
hanbot: Anyway, I'm going to get it settled tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 15:57 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean isn't the point of this whole wu business that you just walk into an office and send someone a few benjies ?
asciilifeform: it only started to work once i fed it a name, addr, and cc.