Logs for #trilema

Go to: #trilema #trilema-mod6 #trilema-trinque #chainstate #eulora

2017-9-1 | 2017-9-3

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seed is a combo of site-produced TRNG entropy and player-set (with defaults if playher doesn't feel like setting). you can change your portion at any time.
mircea_popescu: conceptually equivalent to sha(site+player1) etc.
asciilifeform: what does the end-of-play reveal look like ?
mircea_popescu: site publishes site + player, player can verify that published player = what he thought he was and that the sha results match (published)
asciilifeform: does it publish 'and then player 9000 changed his nonce at time 100' etc ?
asciilifeform: that'd make sense.
asciilifeform: nifty.
mircea_popescu: concrete example : you set your seed to "i like chicks with small tits", site sets seed to "71c0891f45d65ff7"
mircea_popescu: then the first hand is played as 0c3dbf77a25ebe9733548266406161111522839d1d41f221070e59c361f6b2b0990df0606d143e90b1bb9ed1a9b39ff5fcf0ac153cc0e90297f1273076fcf38c
asciilifeform: this reduces to shamir's algo dunnit.
asciilifeform gets
asciilifeform: of course you still can't prove that the house was not 'btcmining' the hash
mircea_popescu: and then when the reveal occurs, you sha512(i like chicks with small tits71c0891f45d65ff7) and see.
asciilifeform: and that all the other players' nonces aren't hashwaltzes
mircea_popescu: this was for casino style games.
mircea_popescu: ie, you against the house.
asciilifeform: esp if 'anyone can change his nonce whenever'
asciilifeform: then especially how can you prove absence of waltz
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't work without withening ; or in other words : he intelligently used the otherwise useless whitening step as an assurance provider. was pretty clever move, esp considering the standard for intelligence at the time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you mean by waltz ?
asciilifeform: walk the nonces until the hash output comes out in favour of house
asciilifeform: ( the nonces OTHER than yours )
mircea_popescu: house uses the same hash for all players for the whole day.
asciilifeform: let's say poker
mircea_popescu: that's what it means "house", in this new paradigm.
asciilifeform: how to prove that the other N-1 players, other than yourself, ain't sybils
asciilifeform: who change their nonces specifically when it would benefit the house, and in such a way as to.
mircea_popescu: again, this was for casino games, not poker. he never implemented multiplayer afaik.
asciilifeform: 'house' being them
asciilifeform: for house games would work
mircea_popescu: it's what it was used for.
asciilifeform: aite.
asciilifeform: clever
mircea_popescu: anyway, we had a good solution with poker, but it never got implemented.
mircea_popescu: and ima not talk about it, because fuck it.
asciilifeform: lol i was about to say.
asciilifeform: (why free gift to derps)
mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: !#s cryptographic poker
a111: 2 results for "cryptographic poker", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cryptographic%20poker
asciilifeform: it ain't a virgin field
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform does not specifically favour any of the published algo
mircea_popescu: anyway, very much a http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ : i was the first investor afaik, his site was going great, thgen the (canadian) government stepped in and burned down the respectable business of an intelligent citizen.
mircea_popescu: then they want to talk about "Gdp growth" and "technology". fuck them in the ass with a pike of stupid, there's no technology in north america, and no gdp growth.
shinohai likes how original satoshi BTC code haz built-in pokar room
asciilifeform: was this in the great pokerholocausting?
mircea_popescu: nah, i don't recall what the site was called, but dice something.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why you're so fixated on poker, this was just early bitcoin business.
asciilifeform: shinohai: aha, iirc some 'i am shitoshi'-flavoured sc4mz0r even tried to make use of the fact to 'prove' his case
mircea_popescu: !#s "justdice"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nitpick was not specific to poker, applies to any 3+party game
a111: 32 results for "\"justdice\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22justdice%22
mircea_popescu: that.
asciilifeform: aah
asciilifeform: where did these go.
shinohai: It was the most recent hoaxtoshi, tried releasing code that is publicly available if one digs hard enough
asciilifeform: somehow never hear about'em no moar
shinohai: I mean *I* have a copy on my site
asciilifeform: shinohai: it was in 0.1
shinohai: I MUST BE SATOSHI
mircea_popescu: shinohoshi
mircea_popescu: and in other "here's a trilema article to translate lol", http://trilema.com/2010/am-o-idee/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709672 << to briefly revisit this lul -- reaction was to d00d who walked in and 'i'd even pay 20x moar for fg!' but he dun particularly want 20 fg. so suppose to give him for what to 20x moar.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 00:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this impression is borne out of lack of experience and no more. what, i'm going to assembly line phds ?
asciilifeform: *for what to pay
mircea_popescu: ah. you know you souind a little like a hooker ? "customer wanted to pay more for drinks so i figured what the hell, ima go home with him. am i fired ?"
mircea_popescu: "no, just come to work on heels and nothing else tomorrow"
asciilifeform: moar of a 'for 10,000 i'll drill own hole'(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: hehe
mircea_popescu: same thing!!!
asciilifeform: it is innit.
mircea_popescu: kinda
asciilifeform: anyway almost whole point of how fg is made is so as this is not esp. appealing.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: dun have to be carried in arse or under guard etc
asciilifeform: fiatola derps fixate on chains of custody because they can't verify jackshit
asciilifeform: 'is this gold bar or tungstenlulz' 'we can lose the tail end of it + potentiallywholething to find out, ohjoy!'
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2017/the-goodbye-girl/#comment-122849 << literatureprizewinner!?1
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what that is.
mircea_popescu: weirdos abound.
mod6: haha, that was all over the place.
mircea_popescu: meaningful fiction is hard.
hanbot: Stanislav Datsokgivsky << straight outta that "Cheap Detective" Neil Simon parody where everyone east of the mississip is AdjectiveNounVerbski
mircea_popescu: oh is that the one where they mash casablanca, to have and have not, the maltese falcon etc together, leslie nelson style ?
hanbot: that's the one
mircea_popescu: pity they had that schmuck in it, what's his name.
mircea_popescu: the short dood with bad diction, was in a buncha tv detective shows
hanbot: iono, phtephen mcstature
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: peter falk
ag3nt_zer0: Hello TMSR... trying to implement trb here. What is the proper way to "save the PGP public keys" before placing them in .wot? Do I simply copy the entirety of the text (including -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----) revealed at the link provided by deedbot, place that into a text editor, and then save as .asc?
mod6: yes.
mod6: name the files like, 'mod6.asc', 'asciilifeform.asc', etc.
mod6: you want to paste everything through '-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----'
ag3nt_zer0: ok tyvm :)
mod6: np, gl!
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4864.01, vol: 17307.21357500 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4855.3, vol: 33254.43085696 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4882.03, vol: 5321.89464584 | Volume-weighted last average: 4860.54304793
BingoBoingo: !!up needhelpwithnode
deedbot: needhelpwithnode voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/09/september-begins-with-still-deepening-fiat-malaise/ << Qntra - September Begins With Still Deepening Fiat Malaise
needhelpwithnode: thanks bingo bongo
needhelpwithnode: I have a story to share with you big whales
mod6: ok
needhelpwithnode: basically i was lonely and was looking to have some human affection/love. So going back to home i converted an hidden amount of btc to 50 eur, cashed out at the ATM, and started to looking forward for Street hookers. I'm generally afraid to do it because if my country police catch you talking for business with a pro, there is a very big fine (500 e
needhelpwithnode: uros)
needhelpwithnode: (this fine only applies to cheap Street prostitution, since the cool kids cannot morally stand an half naked woman doin her job, doin it at home is perfectly legit and no fine applies)
mod6: ah
trinque: starting to see what node he wanted help with
needhelpwithnode: then appears this super cute girl (at least for my standards), she's 20, very hot romanian girl. Scared as fuck and proactively looking for police to eventually flee the zone, i approach her and she tolds me that for 30 bombs, she can have good time with me in the car
mircea_popescu: 50 euro hookers ?
needhelpwithnode: i'm totally ok with the price, but only later, when we are in the car and she show me her just remade 7k euros fake titties, I realize that I'm an emotional guy and the vulva of this girl is not turning on me at all
needhelpwithnode: mircea_popescu: 30
mircea_popescu: where the hell is this, cheaper than here even.
needhelpwithnode: well but likes shared VPNs, with such prices you cannot have nothing to expect aside of the physical action
needhelpwithnode: the girl is simply cannot dedicate resources to you
needhelpwithnode: ***the girl simply
needhelpwithnode: but going on with the story
needhelpwithnode: she realizes that I'm not turned on, and then tells me: baby, I don't have much time to spend here cause i need to continue working
needhelpwithnode: I try to explain to her my delicate situation having her standing in front of my stomach. She try to fix the situation in a harsh way telling me "should i go up your little friend?"
needhelpwithnode: To cut a not too long story short: i just hugged her, and had no ejaculation of any kind
mircea_popescu: there's kinds ?
needhelpwithnode: well, after this I realized to have wasted 30 euros, but even more sadly, wasted bitcoin to have something that is really difficult and expensive to buy
mircea_popescu: blesfully.
mircea_popescu: 94.185.74.247 for the record.
mod6: shinohai: hey, thanks the donation Sir.
mircea_popescu: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/20/technology/theyre-trying-to-sue-a-white-supremacist-first-he-must-be-found.html in other lulz.
mircea_popescu: mostly for the lulzy "A team of four people hired by the nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center to serve Mr. Anglin with notice of a lawsuit accusing him of leading a “troll army” have failed. They scoured parts of Ohio, where Mr. Anglin is from, and talked to his brother; they went to his father’s counseling office; they drove around his sister’s church. When they saw someone was home at an apartment affiliated with h
mircea_popescu: im, they staked it out. The fruitless search for him exemplifies the challenges that online harassment cases sometimes encounter.
mircea_popescu: totally, trying to harass people ain't always easy.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, as per usual : the usg focusing on idiots, trying to build "legal precedent" on the basis of pursuing people too feebleminded to as much as find their way here.
mircea_popescu: then supposedly "as to the mentally retarded, so for everyone, tis teh caselaws!" or somesuch bullshit.
BingoBoingo: It's just what USG does. Brings everyone down to retard precedent.
BingoBoingo: In other lulz, Google, after inventing a holding company for itself 'Alphabet' has invented a holding company for that 'XXVI'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709817 << why invent revenue streams, best "re-invent itself" aka "redecoration".
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 11:48 BingoBoingo: In other lulz, Google, after inventing a holding company for itself 'Alphabet' has invented a holding company for that 'XXVI'
mircea_popescu: !!up barpub
deedbot: barpub voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: who were ye again /
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709812 << usg.riaa had no problems with trials and verdicts in absentia; wai nao ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 06:27 mircea_popescu: im, they staked it out. The fruitless search for him exemplifies the challenges that online harassment cases sometimes encounter.
mircea_popescu: i dunno. cuz they know he's an imbecile and dun wanna miss out on the presence ?
asciilifeform: aah hm.
mircea_popescu: there's a composite value, and i suppose they're aware the "this is what our SOPS said nyah" portion is just about epsilon.
mircea_popescu: the "this dood we chose for not being mp -- isn't mp, so nyah, no mps do or can exist" portion is apparently what they're after.
asciilifeform: the previous tard picked for this - one spencer - was spent. so i suppose new one needed.
asciilifeform: also bonus, i expect they are working to kick the dog, hoping for a mcveigh
mircea_popescu: amusingly this whole thing stems out of : some obnoxiouys pantsuit hag started harassing that spencer dude's mom, to get her to "disown" her son and donate his inheritance to the nigger fund or some shit. THAT part was a-ok ; but when this dork put some words on a website and as a result THOUSANDS of people told that woman what a shitstain she is, THEN it became scandalous.
mircea_popescu: because you know, how dare the pantsuit misbehaviours THAT ARE OH-SO SOCIALLY SUPPORTED not be socially supported at all!
mircea_popescu: so let's make a trial about not-that and be right about it vicariously!
mircea_popescu: (that being the idea here, the shit-piss-licker center isn't suing about "is it ok for a meg ryan wanna-be to try and defraud an old woman into giving her all the moneyz". it's suing about "is it ok for fraudster specializing in old women to be told off by the public if she's defrauding for the dnc!")
asciilifeform: fraud ( or murder, watever ) under usg krysha is a-ok, who's about to punish it
asciilifeform: certainly not the old cuck
mircea_popescu: not a great trump fan, are ye
asciilifeform: hey when balloon was still full of air, looked great
asciilifeform: today - only sad skin left.
mircea_popescu: i dun recall that time lol
asciilifeform: recall, the brochure, where 'close most fed agencies', 'defund warmism', etc etc
mircea_popescu: i've not bothered to actually do an eval.
mircea_popescu: but i can tell you the clinton foundation "gender" derps are well defunded.
mircea_popescu: about to rape some here.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the maryjane files, http://68.media.tumblr.com/cd2fe3a2625b43210a53db66eb14d463/tumblr_nwn3cakN4u1usvqwuo1_1280.jpg
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-july-august-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), July-August 2017 Statement
shinohai: http://archive.is/1otw0 <<< Moar SONIC WAVEZZZZ!!!!!!
asciilifeform: lol!!
asciilifeform: when usg does this to halfwit dissenters, it's a schizo diagnosis and a one way ticket to padded room
asciilifeform: when done to usg -- 'atrocity'
mircea_popescu: cuban ministry "uhm... i'm pretty sure they were this way when we got 'em. americans with brain injury, amirite ?"
shinohai: "So we're good here"
shinohai: http://archive.is/ccLzJ <<< A new "sekoor" debian-ish distro for BTC, contains only spv wallet
asciilifeform: lol debian rng
mircea_popescu: of course.
mircea_popescu feels the need to put http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-july-august-2017-statement/#selection-1029.0-1045.44 into the log : 
mircea_popescu: "To put the matter in simple terms : next time you get a "black chix code" itch and feel like vomiting your idiocy in the shape of "patches" and "code submissions", seriously consider writing strings on your tits instead. It's infinitely easier to clean up, and it ends up costing us less money! This is what true ecology is all about, ye ken ?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still tearing prbisms out of the graphics libs, or wat
asciilifeform has only surface knowledge of euloratronics
mircea_popescu: not even gfx libs.
mircea_popescu: but yes, by the time code costs a buck a line to NOT exist, i'm considering a bullet per "IT expert" "github developer" etc head would be way the fuck cheaper.
mircea_popescu: next 20 btc goes to bomb cars in bay area, not to fucking code cleanup.
mircea_popescu: !~google how many bomb cars could i buy for 100`000 dollars in san francisco
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: What people say about making $120,000 in Silicon Valley ...: <http://www.businessinsider.com/what-people-say-about-making-120000-in-silicon-valley-2016-6>; How Much You Have To Work To Make $100000 ... - Business Insider: <http://www.businessinsider.com/where-to-work-to-to-make-100000-driving-for-uber-lyft-and-sidecar-2015-1>; Here's What A $100,000 Salary Gets You In 20 Global Cities ...: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: check out the artificial intelligence!
asciilifeform: y'mean there's still a hole b/w there and mircea_popescu's eulora kitchen ?! big enough for ants ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. nevertheless, i can't shoot people in the past.
mircea_popescu: i gotta shoot people in the present so they don't befoul the future in the manner they befouled the present through existing in the past.
mircea_popescu: but yes, i'd very much like to kill the present crop of "it experts" "github developers" etc as babies if possible. rather than as adults.
asciilifeform: https://youtu.be/qj4BzME7c-o?t=25s << oblig ancient lul
mircea_popescu: imagine, you know, getting ian "debian was the early apple appstore" murdock into a terrible, decapitating bike accident at age 5, rather than waiting for him to be fucking forty and get it from its own team.
shinohai: https://github.com/owocki/pytrader <<< "My test portfolio was initialized with a 1 BTC deposit, and after 2 months and 23,413 trades, exited with 0.955 BTC. The system paid 2.486 BTC in fees to poloniex."
shinohai: SUCCESS!!!!
asciilifeform: ( summary: partizan boy going barmy; column is advancing, but he stops to shoot a hitler poster in the mud. each bullet he imagines unbombs a house, underds buncha prisoners 'from' gasenwagen, armies disassemble, etc, time unwinds. )
asciilifeform: *unherds
asciilifeform: shinohai: lol !
mircea_popescu: sounds exactly right,m at that
shinohai: I'm sure the Baloney exchange appreciates these advances in AI and machine lurnin
asciilifeform: shinohai: recall http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-17#-120762 ?
a111: Logged on 2013-02-17 02:04 asciilifeform: zanz: I made 0.4 BTC (or 1.4 BTC, depending on how you count) using MPEX
asciilifeform: and without even a bot...
shinohai: ^ heh that was when I was still doing my 6 month novitiate log reading
asciilifeform: shinohai: i had a somewhat nonstandard 'bootcamp' tour.
asciilifeform: '...people-say-about-making-120000-in-silicon-valley-2016-6...' << that's quite like 20 in the normal swamp
mircea_popescu: yeah, somehow all the abundance of "commentary", exploratory-creative as it is, fails to fucking mention "120k" actually means 70k post tax, and -5k post rent.
asciilifeform: ... or maybe not even. i met people who get 20 here in ye olde swamp and still have a flat to himself, rather than barrack
mircea_popescu: da fuck bitch, when i say make 120k i MEAN make 120k. wtf is this "hey, congrats on your 120cough70" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: the "oh, tax goes without saying" lulz is rapidly becoming the lightningrod of imperial dorkitude. really, bitch, tax ? and what else, gender fluidity ?
asciilifeform: not only tax. old associate of asciilifeform's thought he was clever , went off to taiwan, keeping same (tele) job. found himself with 'cost of living adjust' to half the pay the next month.
asciilifeform: what does tax even mean when you're paid in sov scrip to begin with.
asciilifeform: ( d00d wasn't a monkey, had an actual skill, even, a db massageur and imho a good one )
mircea_popescu: ahahaha WHAT
mircea_popescu: in similar news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/308e27164c7a1e482c036fb35b0c5878/tumblr_no7i7cu55O1s94pn6o1_500.gif
asciilifeform: lol i gotta wonder, do they draw straws, short straw gets the ear
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how is that supposed to work anyway, like argentine's notion of rental agreements, "We decided to increase rent" ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno if i ever recounted that lulz, was a buncha dorks, "um... we would like more money" "that's nice. so would i"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suppose it works by 'at will employment, we do whatever we feel like, incl. fuck your ear, and if you dun like it go find another plantation'
mircea_popescu: sure thang lol.
mircea_popescu: i had nfi taiwan was cheap anyway. isn't that where they stack like sardines, moreso than in london ?
asciilifeform: just about anywhere short of mars is cheap vs usa
mircea_popescu: no way lol.
mircea_popescu: usa is one of the cheaper.
asciilifeform: not the part of usa where employed folx live, lol
asciilifeform: ( if he had moved to montana prolly would have gotten similar cut )
mircea_popescu: now, specifically re san francisco, it's not THAT much worse than london/moscow and way the fuck cheaper than shanghai.
asciilifeform: nah, 300k$ buys you (with title) an actual flat in moscow
mircea_popescu: where ?
asciilifeform: maybe not by the mausoleum lol but ~in~ moscow, and in places where trains go.
mircea_popescu: same exact situation in frisco.
asciilifeform: not afaik.
mircea_popescu: 2-300k will buy you flat "in san francisco, where trains go"
asciilifeform: i dun think 300 buys a doghouse there, within 3 hrs of anywhere.
mircea_popescu: yes, but your thinking is in the vein of free image association.
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform's research is several yrs old, the last time he turned down various 'come to sf' nonsense
asciilifeform: i'ma let phf answer whether i hallucinated re moscow.
mircea_popescu: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2122-Shelter-Creek-Ln-San-Bruno-CA-94066/15623598_zpid/ << point in case.
mircea_popescu: !~google 490 sqft in human terms
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: A Guide to Square Footage w/ Real Life Examples - Platinum ...: <https://www.platinumpropertiesnyc.com/blog/guide-square-footage-w-real-life-examples>; Square Feet to Square Centimeters conversion: <http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/square-feet-to-square-centimeters.htm>; What Does 100 Square Feet Really Look Like? | Apartment Therapy: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: heh. so very artificial, this intelligence.
asciilifeform: 'HOA 350/mo' lol!!
asciilifeform: that ain't ownership
asciilifeform: that's 'buy and hey you still gotta pay rent, idjit'
mircea_popescu: im sorry, flats in moscow are free of condo encumberments ?
asciilifeform: i dun think they yet invented this scam in orclandia
mircea_popescu: of course they did. had it even during soviet times.
asciilifeform: i'm starting to think that mircea_popescu's su-era ro was a very unlike beast from su per se
asciilifeform: and moar like china or the like
mircea_popescu: eh, ask your parents. they paid hoa in 1980.
asciilifeform: they paid chickenshit.
asciilifeform: ( and nonpayment resulted in 0 eviction, just nastygrams )
mircea_popescu: resulted in place of employment being notified and you being pulled before the "Collective" for your "attitude".
mircea_popescu: ~same shit.
mircea_popescu: moreover, nastygrams in communism aren't what you think, chiefly because there's no other plantation and nobody is allowed to own savings or live off them. just like in us.
mircea_popescu: which is how and wherefore all these doods keep shitting their pants, "o noes, mother is upset with me!!1"
asciilifeform: still phakt, nobody removed from flat other than for cemetery or prison term.
mircea_popescu: prison term easy to come by.
asciilifeform: not so much after mustache man died
asciilifeform: coincidentally did anybody ever translate http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709440 piece ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 22:51 mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/am-mai-contribuit-si-noi-la-cite-ceva-n-lume/ << a fine example.
mircea_popescu: original is linked, and in english.
asciilifeform: oh hm
asciilifeform looks
shinohai: It appears if I ever want to learn Romanian, I'm just gonna have to find a girl to come live here about a year or so for immersion purposes.
asciilifeform: shinohai: could learn from b00kz , the hard way
shinohai: Sure, but shinohai learns languages faster when females are involved for some odd reason :)
asciilifeform: and i'm sure he digs trench faster with excavator than with rusty sapper's spade under fire also.
shinohai: Nothing quite like having girl curse at you in foreign language whilst throwing dishes. It just sticks!
shinohai pages mats for rusty sapper's spade
mircea_popescu: anyway. the reason "chickenshit" and nobody cared about paying hoa in 1980 was that there wasn't anything whatsoever to do with the "money" anyway. much like in the us.
mircea_popescu: that's also how i was getting 20s whenever i felt like and so on. worthless govt paper.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly mircea_popescu , doyathink http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709607 link belongs in your rsa draft article ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 23:39 mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: could call 'monte carlo rsa sig'
mircea_popescu: possibly.
mircea_popescu: a good tmsr-rsa signature write-up can't possibly hurt.
mircea_popescu is entirely unconvinced how to write it as of yet.
asciilifeform: i can expand yesterday's item for the l0gz, might help
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider something like : 1. split item to sign into 512 byte blocks. create block 0 from rng. sign hash(block 0), hash(block 1 + hash(block 0)), hash(block 2 + hash(block 1 + hash(block 0))), and so following.
asciilifeform: say yer max rsasig payload is R bytes. ( R < key/8 , because padding scheme, exactly how is not necessary to say here yet )
asciilifeform: say yer signing a payload, P bytes, P > R .
asciilifeform: P could be a MB, TB, whichever.
asciilifeform: P is now cut into N parcels, R bytes each, last one nullpadded
asciilifeform: now you fire up yer fuckgoat and get a blumblumshub seed, S, S <= R.
asciilifeform: it will be treated as parcel 0 ( what this does, will become apparent later )
mircea_popescu: hehe.
asciilifeform: now you feed S to blumblumshub prng, and generate your soliton distribution. this consists of a series of lists, each of the form {Qa, Qb, ... Qc} where Q_ are indices of the parcels
asciilifeform: and arity of each list L is given by soliton dist. likewise
asciilifeform: now we prepend each L with the seed S
asciilifeform: and compute S xor Qa xor .... on each L
asciilifeform: we prepend the indices of the packets that went into each xor, and sign the result.
asciilifeform: the resulting signature is this list of signed solitonizations ( the S can be computed independently , given the original payload P; or can be packaged with the thing for convenience )
asciilifeform: the longer the sig -- the more bulletproof, computably ( exercise for reader ! )
asciilifeform: to verify, delubyize the lists L0....Ln and verify the rsa sig on each.
asciilifeform: bonus is that you can transmit them in any order.
asciilifeform: also error-tolerant, by virtue of lubyism, you can afford to lose a few packets, how many depends on what you have left over.
asciilifeform: that there's it, i think.
asciilifeform: notice, no hashing.
mircea_popescu: see, "any order" is not advantage because you have the original document to provide order ; and the "lose a few" works for enemy here, helps to fake sigs
mircea_popescu: but yes, no hashing. 8x the signing though
asciilifeform: well you can't control the order of transmission, enemy can rearrange the packets. but it doesn't help him any.
mircea_popescu: moreover, the relevant "hashing" is when you can have signature shorter than document. neither scheme contemplates that.
mircea_popescu: so i'd propose it's not properly speaking hashing in that sense, to take 512 byte blocks and spit out 512 byte blocks.
mircea_popescu: there's no rule you must have collisions in this kind of hash function.
asciilifeform: interestingly we don't have any hash function designed from outset to guarantee 0collision 1:1 operation.
mircea_popescu: (if one's absolutely crazy can declare the function from 511 to 512 bytes, and then split all the packages into 511 byte blocks and hurr.)
asciilifeform: on equal-to-output-length inputs.
mircea_popescu: i just did one above.
mircea_popescu: anyway. proper tmsr-rsa-signing is still in need of some chewing.
mircea_popescu: one major point is that other than mpfhf which has been well implemented thanks to peterl, sina and ben_vulpes (and to some degree researched -- speaking of which, still cooking ben_vulpes ?), there's keccak which HASNT yet been implemented much ; and we really could use a fixed-block hash function that's any good.
asciilifeform: in particular, to work out what the minimal ( with engineering margin, a la miller-rabin ) number of lubypackets would be.
asciilifeform not yet attempted to work it out
mircea_popescu: algorithmic hash function is nice ; accordeoning hash function is nice ; anisotropic hash function would be nice to have.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's an ada keccak published decade ago that was not, at first glance, defective in any obvious way, and is a few pgs. but asciilifeform has not yet formally audited.
mircea_popescu: or how would you call "guaranteed bijective hash function" if not anisotropic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform link ?
asciilifeform: !#s ada keccak
a111: 1 result for "ada keccak", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ada%20keccak
asciilifeform: hmm
mircea_popescu: for one thing, you'd prolly want to run it on the ffa anyway
asciilifeform: could've sworn it was in the l0gz
asciilifeform: iirc was by one daniel king.
asciilifeform: holyshit the original keccak www is gone
asciilifeform: replaced with some horrorshow
asciilifeform: ada code -- gone
asciilifeform: fortunately still on my hdd
asciilifeform: check this out, keccak.noekeon.org now forwards to buncha tards
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/GkmgU < original
shinohai: Notice that happened after nist.gov declared their spec
asciilifeform: shinohai: not immediately , iirc was still intact last yr
asciilifeform: incidentally shinohai keccak != usg.sha3
asciilifeform: they adopted ~particular params~ of keccak as the new national whatever
asciilifeform: orig is ~family~ of functions.
asciilifeform: see also https://archive.is/lViVh << since 'unhappened' article
asciilifeform: ' The SHA-3 version of Keccak being proposed appears to provide essentially the same level of security guarantees as SHA-2, its predecessor. If we are going to develop a next generation hash, there certainly should be standardized versions that provide a higher security level than the older hash functions! NIST, in the original call for submissions, specifically asked for four versions in each submission, with at least two that would
asciilifeform: be stronger than what was currently available, so it’s hard to understand this post-competition weakening.'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: notice how 'everyone' nao thinks 'oh, keccak? that's called sha3 nao'
asciilifeform: in other noose, the kanzure d00d works and works to transcribe audio for prb 'conferences', e.g. http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/milan/schnorr-signatures , for apparently years nao.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9E0E6D172017667AE0B2FAD15F8F69D1C024C632C6FB20025EC9493489817F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1391...9423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.6.197 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.6.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (xvm-6-197.ghst.net. FR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9E0E6D172017667AE0B2FAD15F8F69D1C024C632C6FB20025EC9493489817F8D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1767...7153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.6.197 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.6.197 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (xvm-6-197.ghst.net. FR)
asciilifeform: ( really enjoys dataentry work, apparently. so long as it happens for clitler )
shinohai: Maybe he'll use that BTC mp gave him to buy a pantsuit with.
asciilifeform: ( re schnorr -- see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621306 thread )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 21:10 asciilifeform: oooh hey hey hey lbj. i finally found out why prb folx like schnorr.
asciilifeform: shinohai: d00d dun need money, he has ~infinite printola budget from handler
asciilifeform: high-end judas goat.
asciilifeform: isn't even shy re regularly visiting, e.g., zurich, to confer with prb 'devs'
asciilifeform: betcha the man wears 'gott mit uns' belt buckle, he does.
shinohai: LOL
kanzure: asciilifeform: i implemented a speech recognition system (tensorflow + keras + CTC loss scoring)
asciilifeform: my current impression is that d00d's duties were not originally connected to antibitcoin detail, but to keeping 'biohackers' and other DIY types well-surveilled by fbi , dhs
kanzure: asciilifeform: based on this technique http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/baidu-deep-learning-for-speech-recognition/
asciilifeform: kanzure: put in catalogue ?
asciilifeform: or already sold to nsa, nm ( speechtronics -- great biznis to be in for infinite usgolade . )
kanzure: trained it on 80k hours of audio books. admittedly, 'machine learning' is 98% cargo cult bullshit.
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/speech-recognition/
asciilifeform believes
kanzure: anyway the most recent output was http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/gmaxwell-2017-08-28-deep-dive-bitcoin-core-v0.15/
asciilifeform: i recommend to kanzure to study the postwar memoirs of heisenberg. he managed to stay off the nuremberg bench by arguing 'none of my shit worked, really', maybe you can too.
kanzure: "it was all fan fiction"
shinohai: I'll just wait for the wikileaks, tyvm
kanzure: see "fanfic" https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.html
shinohai: !~tyvm
jhvh1: shinohai: Error: "tyvm" is not a valid command.
shinohai: !~ty
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
asciilifeform: in all fairness this is much classier than the last 2 nsa резидент we had. we're moving up, folx!11!
asciilifeform: but largely unrelatedly : BingoBoingo ( qntra fodder ? ) , mircea_popescu : https://archive.is/E5Fyk << recent lulz re the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709834 folx
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 13:25 mircea_popescu: (that being the idea here, the shit-piss-licker center isn't suing about "is it ok for a meg ryan wanna-be to try and defraud an old woman into giving her all the moneyz". it's suing about "is it ok for fraudster specializing in old women to be told off by the public if she's defrauding for the dnc!")
asciilifeform: '"I've never known a US-based nonprofit dealing in human rights or social services to have any foreign bank accounts," said Amy Sterling Casil, CEO of Pacific Human Capital, a California-based nonprofit consulting firm. "My impression based on prior interactions is that they have a small, modestly paid staff, and were regarded by most in the industry as frugal and reliable. I am stunned to learn of transfers of millions to offshore b
asciilifeform: ank accounts. It is a huge red flag and would have been completely unacceptable to any wealthy, responsible, experienced board member who was committed to a charitable mission who I ever worked with."'
asciilifeform: predicted effect : 0
asciilifeform: 'Richard Cohen, president and chief executive officer of the SPLC, was given $346,218 in base compensation in 2015 ..... The SPLC, which claims to boast a staff of 75 lawyers who practice in the area of children's rights, economic justice, immigrant justice, LGBT rights, and criminal justice reform, reported spending only $61,000 on legal services in 2015. Following recent violence in Charlottesville, Va., the group raised a great de
asciilifeform: al of money. Apple CEO Tim Cook told his employees that the company is donating $1 million to the SPLC and would match employee contributions two to one. Cook also placed an SPLC donation button in its iTunes store. The company is additionally providing a $1 million donation to the Anti-Defamation League.'
shinohai: Meanwhile, I invited the alleged instagram haxor https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1133449 here for an interview and tips on how to keep a website up when "facebook is buying up all the doxagram tld's"
asciilifeform: shinohai: plox to summarize ?
asciilifeform: my dosimeter's maxed for the week
shinohai: tl;dr is instagram had a "bug" that reveled user emails and phone #'s, several celeb accounts are up for grabs, in addition to random nobodies.
asciilifeform: shinohai: linked thread not readily distinguishable from rando sc4mz0r
shinohai: Asi es ..... I din check out the tor www because, as you see in thread, he insists that one must "Enable javascript in tor browser for complete site functionality"
shinohai: (tm)
asciilifeform: lollomatic
shinohai: I'm just curious to know if it is genuine item.
asciilifeform: 'shards from The True Cross!11'
shinohai: Act now, and we'll throw in a phree facial bone from the head of St. John the Baptist.
asciilifeform: from skull of voltaire as a boy.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707890 <--> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708980 neato! olimex ppl are pretty close to me (bg), so I ordered one myself, hopefully to be shipped by end of next week
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:23 asciilifeform: since we're on subj, asciilifeform got the recently released ice40-8k (largest in the series) going. ( there's only 1 decent dev board for the 8k, the one released by olimex ~2wks ago )
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 15:38 asciilifeform: in very very other noose : the vendor's vga and ps/2 kbd demo verilog for ice40 builds and WORX
asciilifeform: spyked: neato
spyked has had a spike in spendings on hardware in the last ~3 weeks, but couldn't be helped
asciilifeform: spyked: you'll also want something to use as a programmator
asciilifeform: ( can use their olimexduino thing + 10pin cable, or if you have a similar already )
asciilifeform: olimex's ice board dun have a built-in programmator.
asciilifeform: ( see their docs. )
spyked: lessee. what do they use? JTAG?
asciilifeform: there are jtag pins but they are unpopulated, and you'll have to tweezer a resistor off to get the thing to use the ice's internal eeprom instead of the external 2Mb spi rom, if you want to use those
asciilifeform: otherwise you need something that can write to the spi rom, via the given header
asciilifeform: ( 'buspirate', or whateverthehellduino with olimex's supplied proggy, and a few others, will work )
asciilifeform: spyked: https://www.olimex.com/wiki/ICE40HX1K-EVB#Get_started_under_Linux << their doc
asciilifeform: ( scroll up for pinout of the prog connector )
asciilifeform: pgm1
spyked: ty asciilifeform! I have an arduino board somewhere, will try to get that working.
asciilifeform: np spyked
asciilifeform: the tricky bit is the toolchain .
spyked: hm. why? problems getting it compiled and running? (the linux guide looks straightforward)
asciilifeform: try it and see.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't really understand fpga peripherals architecture very well, but you think you could eyeball compare what's available in ice to pipistrello. (i'm curious where there's a limitation as far as porting cadr) http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello#Pipistrello_Rev_2.0_Hardware_Description
asciilifeform: phf: that looks like a xilinx
asciilifeform: you can get ANYTHING you want on a xilinx board, phf
asciilifeform: i have multi-$k ones here
asciilifeform: the problem is that it's xilinx.
phf: i'm more asking what's missing from ice in comparison. flash memory, dram? etc.
asciilifeform: where , you know, you gotta devote an entire comp to running a 20GB closed warez, and it does ?????.
asciilifeform: phf: let's start with the gate count
asciilifeform: biggest ice part is the ICE40HX8K
asciilifeform: 7680 LUTs.
asciilifeform: roughly same as 100 of the xl9572 used in FUCKGOATS.
asciilifeform: but smaller than all but the smallest xilinx 'spartan' parts.
asciilifeform: then we proceed to the dev boards. nobody makes an ice dev board with dram on it; or with flash other than the config rom; or with sram bigger than 512k. currently.
asciilifeform: because the part is considered 'too small'
asciilifeform: folx who are willing to use lattice's closed shitdevchain buy the larger parts, where the dev boards are comparable to xilinx.
phf: right, so ice is basically just the fpga with minimum amount of breadboarding, if we want to pipistrello gottta design our own
asciilifeform: correct.
asciilifeform: hence http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707941 .
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:44 asciilifeform: phf et al : to briefly continue http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707895 -- picture an a4-sized plinth, of, e.g., 32 dimm slots. each can contain a card of sram, or alternatively of 4 ice40-8k's, or some peripheral ( e.g. nic magnetics. )
asciilifeform: ( see also thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701866 . )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 12:25 asciilifeform: but lattice per se is EXACTLY like xilinx, same profit model, closed arch, license 'ip cores'. their larger flagship fpga is exactly like xilinx 'spartan', full of proprietary peripherals, and that's the one that tends to get packaged into devboards with nic etc
phf: so i see
asciilifeform: phf: to be fair, the olimex boards have an expansion plug. but you can't put , e.g., dram, on there, toomuch capacitance.
asciilifeform: will work ok for, e.g., sd card, or breadboard.
asciilifeform: up to perhaps 10MHz
asciilifeform: phf: first thing i'd put on ab-initio ice board is... moar ices.
asciilifeform: let's say 32 of'em.
asciilifeform: ( connect as a hypercube, or on a crossbar, or whichever. )
asciilifeform: ( though i currently suspect that something in the spirit of scheme-79 could fit in no more than 2 -- 1 for the alu and 1 for memory control/gc )
phf: this is beyond me at this point. i'm mostly trying to understand various initricasies of cadr fpga-ing, i'll revisit this thread later
asciilifeform: phf: if you're content to test parker's cadr, your existing xilinx board oughta do the job
asciilifeform: ( though last i saw it was a straight conversion from the ttl schematic, and not especially compact, might need one of the larger chips )
phf: right, it already does (board above). i was curious if there's a porting out strategy, but your answer explained the situation
asciilifeform: phf: out of curiosity, what was the LUT % utilization when you built ?
asciilifeform: ( xilinx toolchain shits out this figure in the report )
phf: i didn't notice it, but i'll look next time i build
asciilifeform: you can use this to estimate whether the thing will fit in particular pld
asciilifeform: FG for instance used 71 out of 72
asciilifeform: ( this is a rough measure, because not all LUTs are created equal, naturally, xilinx has somewhat different ones in the cpld series vs 'spartans', and lattice has yet different, and altera -- yet different, etc )
asciilifeform: for added excitement in life, each also has different routing fabric
asciilifeform: large xilinx chips also have 'hard' periphs inside, e.g. multers, adders, shifters, various
asciilifeform: and these end up used to reduce pressure on the LUTs
asciilifeform: ( and are the reason why xilinx has not been satisfactorily reversed a la ice, and not likely to be before going out of print )
asciilifeform: i.e. they are nonhomogeneous.
asciilifeform: 'ice' -- is homogeneous.
spyked: also, synthesis of open source icestorm toolchain might be somewhat less efficient than closed source? (just a wild guess, maybe not)
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707976 . )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 23:18 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ic-pr0n, http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/bitdocs-8k << spiffy example of nonpdfized ( per earlier mircea_popescu thread ) hierarchical docs
asciilifeform: spyked: it does not seem to be disastrously bad, surprisingly. but i have yet to try it with a large design. ( also helps that the chip is small, a truly elephantine circuit will never be entered )
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710087 <-- so far so good. building icestorm tools, pnr, verilog synthesis works after adding clang and other assorted crap. will work out the arduino part later.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 19:40 asciilifeform: try it and see.
asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc.
asciilifeform: spyked: aaaah see, i don't permit clang on my boxes
asciilifeform: it is an evil and i will not work dependency on it into my conveyor.
asciilifeform: bad enough that the thing seems to insist on python3.
spyked: no idea why they need clang. but I see your point
asciilifeform: ( this is at least theoretically fixable )
asciilifeform: spyked: anyway if you search the log you can see how to make it build on gcc.
phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
asciilifeform: aah yes phf
asciilifeform saw this
spyked: anyway, don't see why toolchain would need github deps. can fork and sanitize
asciilifeform: lego toy got 'xilinxized' in early 2000s
asciilifeform: spyked: that's the plan.
asciilifeform: spyked: once satisfied that the thing can support adult work.
asciilifeform: ( eventually the synthesis must run on ITSELF )
asciilifeform: THEN can throw out pc.
asciilifeform: and not before.
spyked: aha! so gotta lispify the toolchain. this sounds like a nice project
phf: right, that's the first thought when you have your cadr up. "oh wait, i need to go fuck around with xilinx tooling to make any kind of changes here)
asciilifeform: ideally box will write own config rom. ( have a bank of'em , with mechanical selector, for when you make mistake )
asciilifeform: sorta like bios on certain high end pc mobos.
phf: exactly
asciilifeform: i had a xilinx board (shaped like pc mobo, with pci even ) that had this feature
asciilifeform: would load config from a cf card, and little round knob for setting which of 8 .bit files it'd use on boot
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710002 << heh. teh conincidentals.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 16:51 asciilifeform: holyshit the original keccak www is gone
mircea_popescu: Guido Bertoni, Joan Daemen, Michaël Peeters, Gilles Van Assche and Ronny Van Keer << might as well dump the list of bernsteins that'll have to explain themselves.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710018 << hey, it's easy and non-threatening and gives the outward impression of doing work. what'd you have him do.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:17 asciilifeform: in other noose, the kanzure d00d works and works to transcribe audio for prb 'conferences', e.g. http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/milan/schnorr-signatures , for apparently years nao.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710028 << kek what's with you and amateur directed-physchognomism anyways ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:23 asciilifeform: betcha the man wears 'gott mit uns' belt buckle, he does.
asciilifeform: some folx are open an' shut cases, wat.
mircea_popescu: or however you'd spell a portmanteau of psychology and physiognomy.
asciilifeform: telephrenology lol
mircea_popescu: similar science!
mircea_popescu: you realise you'd prolly hang all my whores for "hanging out with enemy, AND wrong garterbelt buckles" if you had to manage the thing ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, did i ever recount my sad encounter with another man's electronics lab, as a 6 yo ?
asciilifeform: whore dun go around presenting selves as independent operators who 'spent 27 million, you maggot!' etc
asciilifeform: lolno do tell
mircea_popescu: so i was about six, and a bright young adorable kid with blond curls that proposed to my parents' friends' wives. marriage i mean. and even bit one.
mircea_popescu: and this guy who was an amateur electronist died, and he actually LEFT me his lab! which included all sorts of things, glassware from pre war and such.
mircea_popescu: now at the time we are writing about, "electronics hobbist lab lightbulb" meant a fixed, all-identical, standardized thing. gost like. every kid in school could recognize the item, "this is lightbulb". same for 4.5V 3-cell-in-paper battery and so on. identical, you understand ? (and same for all girls underweasr and all people's flats and furniture in them and so on)
asciilifeform: oohyeah
mircea_popescu: now this man... he had a set of 9V lightbulbs. and so as any good respectable citizen i sat down with the dead man's dragon pile, to TEST everythiung I got. yes ?
asciilifeform can feel the bulb in his fingers even nao
mircea_popescu: now the lightbulbs, connected to the standard battery, did not light up. but only ever slightly orange in the filament.
mircea_popescu: so i threw it away. and piucked another one. same thing. so i scream-ask my mom, across the flat, "mom, is a lightbulb that doesn't not light up thereby no good ?" "yes" she says, evidently using a different standard of "not light up" than mine.
mircea_popescu: i threw them all away.
asciilifeform: aw
mircea_popescu: and only realised the problem after the garbage had been taken out.
mircea_popescu: i was very sad.
mircea_popescu: mind you don't end up as sad as me at six as an adult. it goes away a lot faster at that age.
asciilifeform: i have a similar story, but from adulthood and with severl $k of parts that 'hey these all defective, thefuq' and at the end an overvolted ps that had nuked'em all one by one by one..
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: so you have something else to blame huh. i don't!
asciilifeform: sounds like we both had same item to blame, lol
asciilifeform: 'the poor dancer is hindered by own balls' or how it was.
mircea_popescu: no, i just concluded i was inept at standardization and speech generally.
mircea_popescu: possibly the event that made it impossible for me to be seriously racist in the usual sense.
asciilifeform: taken to the extreme, tho, this train would go to 'can't hang nobody at all, what if Great Artist Dies Inside'im'
mircea_popescu: orange.
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> now the lightbulbs, connected to the standard battery, did not light up. but only ever slightly orange in the filament.
asciilifeform: aa
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu would be delighted to learn that 'modern' envirotronic led bulbs typically never properly die, they just grow moar flickery and... orange, if you will
mircea_popescu: i know lol.
asciilifeform: but remain usable, with headache, possibly 4evah
asciilifeform: megapr0gr3ss.
mircea_popescu: btw, you won't believe this, but for being the only house with incandescents on this mother-of-biodiversity hill i get like half the moths and consequently a third of the birds.
mircea_popescu: apparently, they very much can tell.
asciilifeform: they luvvv their blackbody
asciilifeform: and i suspect also -- can SEE the flicker from the electronic horrors
mircea_popescu: i suspect they can see the flicker, yes.
asciilifeform: just as asciilifeform can.
asciilifeform: if i can, moth with mm instead of cm nerve runs, surely can.
mircea_popescu: exactly. that was the logic.
mircea_popescu: "they prolly run up to the mhz"
asciilifeform: spectrum's all wrong, too, led is closer to ye olde crt tv than to blackbody
mircea_popescu: did i ever recount my theory as to WHY they seek the lights ?
asciilifeform: dun think so
mircea_popescu: my theory, which is mine, i will now recount it.
mircea_popescu: this is my theory, which i name it my theory because i came up with it.
mircea_popescu: the next thing i say will be my theory :
asciilifeform: i always thought it was to find the sun, which is how you find your way out of localminima^H^H^H^Henclosed spaces withnofood , in nature
kanzure: asciilifeform: how fast can you run an inkjet valve, you foresee any problem with 1 MHz?
kanzure: other than overheating
asciilifeform: kanzure: if it's veeery small, use a saw resonator, there's your valve, 100Mhz easy
mircea_popescu: imagine there's a bunch of bugs spawned over an acre. to perpetuate, they must mate. how shall they encounter each other ? "wut if we used this waste light and have them all seek it ?" said engineer in charge of moth one day ? "they'll necessarily converge before they reach the moon".
asciilifeform: ( what kanzure intends to throttle with the valve, surely has surface tension, and 100MHz prolly won't happen. unless it's liquid he or wat. )
mircea_popescu: he wants to stuff plasmids in cells.
kanzure: i don't need 100 MHz just >100 KHz, like 1 MHz
asciilifeform: i only ever did this by poration and soak'em
mircea_popescu: he wants to do it 1kx faster.
asciilifeform: kanzure: yer fluid conducts or no ?
kanzure: acetonitrile, tetrazole, ammonia, 3-methoxypropionitrile, 2-methyl glutaronitrile, etc.
mircea_popescu: "anything you want ; not conducive if you don't want it to"
asciilifeform: make it conduct. then form the droplets magnetohydrodynamically.
asciilifeform: no valves. 'best machine is no machine' (altschuller)
mircea_popescu: here's the bitch : conducive is corrosive for this application.
asciilifeform: if you can statically charge, just as good.
mircea_popescu: afaik that's how it's done in srslabs.
mircea_popescu: large magnetatrons, and powerful staticatrizers.
mircea_popescu: problem with this sorta gear is that it costs a billion.
kanzure: is this the highest of the high performance inkjet? http://global.kyocera.com/news/2012/0306_niku.html it's only like 40 kHz * 2600 nozzles
mircea_popescu: and a good chunk thereby in not-avoidable expenditure
asciilifeform: naaah the mass spec i lived next to was only 500k or so
asciilifeform: if you're using something less viscous than ink, can use different mechanism, kanzure
mircea_popescu: kanzure your discussion maps on the inkjet vs bubblejet historical approach to printing.
kanzure: "bubble jet" seems to be canon trade name for inkjet
asciilifeform: also must point out, there are other ways to make droplets. for instance, perfume atomizer will give wide spectrum of droplet sizes, and you can 'massspec' out the desired size.
asciilifeform: ( the rest fall into trough, recycled )
mircea_popescu: kanzure at some point someone came up with "charge the droplets, move elctrostatically, send them out with a quarz pump"
asciilifeform: if your fluid's triple point is close to room temp, can do exotic, e.g. vapourize it and condence on a cold pin point
asciilifeform: *condense
mircea_popescu: ooo yeah that's an idea!
asciilifeform: i could go on, on...
asciilifeform: and so far i only listed methods from su state of the art, 1980s.
shinohai: In Soviet Russia, fluid vaporizes YOU
asciilifeform: if yer fluid is reasonably nonexplosive ( let's assume we're working in ordinary earth atmosphere, near stp ) can also cavitate
asciilifeform: and catch droplets resulting.
kanzure: much of the inkjet "literature" seems to be patents today. was injet peak hype in 80s?
asciilifeform: it's hobbled by presuming working with... ink. i'ma guess that kanzure ain't pumping ink.
kanzure: phosphoramidites and acetonitrile and tetrazole
kanzure: http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/
mircea_popescu: pogo ?!
kanzure: i don't know man
mircea_popescu: only so many 4 letter combos, eventually hashcrash
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wouldja believe, it was also this toy with a sprint to jump on...
asciilifeform: *spring
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710030 << does this actually work ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:24 kanzure: asciilifeform: i implemented a speech recognition system (tensorflow + keras + CTC loss scoring)
kanzure: depends on what you mean by work! it has like a 10-15% word error rate...
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/train_log.excerpt.txt
kanzure: i built out a voip demo for business conference call transcription
kanzure: wardials into random conferences and emails the participants the text at end of meeting
mircea_popescu: sooo... can you put it up on a bot so i say !devoice http:youtube and it returns a pasted text ?
kanzure: depends on how much you care about quality; btw youtube already has captioning thing have you tried that?
mircea_popescu: will try it once youtube gets a key and makes a bot.
mircea_popescu: not before.
mircea_popescu: there's 0 willingness to import empire bullshit into the workflow. they must be raped, even if they'd be willing.
kanzure: raping for peace. got it.
mircea_popescu: certainly not for peace.
mircea_popescu: raping is always for education.
asciilifeform: 'Buttons representing each of the 27 slide positions occupy most of the space on this panel. Clicking on a button will open the slide editor. ' << cringe. even here, guiolade
asciilifeform: waiwaiwai amateur folx, writing vb guilade.
asciilifeform: you built roboprinter, great, drive it from shell like normalpeople
kanzure: oh i should have warned you about that, sorry
kanzure: it's academia tho so you should not have had high expectations
asciilifeform esp. allergic, he spent year+ reversing idjit tecan closedolade 
mircea_popescu: lol are you going to end up with people doing spoilers for you alfie ?
kanzure: so did jcline. he put reversed tecan bullshit on cpan. http://search.cpan.org/dist/Robotics/lib/Robotics/Tecan.pm
asciilifeform: hopefully not, i like surprises
asciilifeform: kanzure: i saw it, it's missing most of the protocol
kanzure: proto-col? what's this.
kanzure: surely you're happy enough with opentrons
asciilifeform: btw seekrit : 100% of tecan internals are rebranded 'cavro', if you get a hold of the orig. documents from the latter, you have ~all of it.
asciilifeform: the hydraulics ain't even rebranded, pop the cover and there it is, cavro.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710031 << at a certain level of individuation, people are actually flattered, "oh, gestapo wrote our name on a napkin! THIS IS A FORM OF EXISTENCE!"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:24 asciilifeform: my current impression is that d00d's duties were not originally connected to antibitcoin detail, but to keeping 'biohackers' and other DIY types well-surveilled by fbi , dhs
kanzure: that's disappointing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the thread with the typewriter ribbons ?
mircea_popescu: vaguely. which ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-12#1098770 << possibly here
a111: Logged on 2015-04-12 19:18 mircea_popescu: does this not suggest that the ACTUAL REASON adults "had to" register their typewriters was because they wanted to have to ?
mircea_popescu: ah that. wasn't re ribbons, but re the actual letters.
asciilifeform: aahyeah
mircea_popescu: something in the vein of the celebrated http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1705262
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 19:08 mircea_popescu: the captured male how to behave so it doesn't rub wrongly. Example suffices, he will perhaps protest but certainly learn and definitely change to fit the limit on his penis. It's not like he's not very eager to alter his behaviour so he can maintain that sweet, sweet delicious cage for longer, for as long as possible, forever. Whatever he may say, it's all window-dressing for that simple, fundamental fact -
mircea_popescu: kanzure : have you put http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710031 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686026 together ? cuz you're such a fine example of it, and also the first good one since the statement. are you thinking "oh, what he is talking of -- i am not" ? does it mean "i am not aware i am ?"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:24 asciilifeform: my current impression is that d00d's duties were not originally connected to antibitcoin detail, but to keeping 'biohackers' and other DIY types well-surveilled by fbi , dhs
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 18:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.
mircea_popescu: identity is such a little bitch. almost as much as money.
asciilifeform: incidentally being kgb imho is not an absolute bar to furthering the aims of republic, so long as actually further'em rather than lounge ( like, e.g., decimation, the last rezident ), see also vonnegut's http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-16#1325347 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-16#1325348 remark
a111: Logged on 2015-11-16 21:01 ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 'I didn't know that,' I said. 'No one knows everything,' he said. 'Did you know,' he said, 'that until almost this very moment nothing would have delighted me more than to prove that you were a spy, to see you shot?' 'No,' I said. 'And do you know why I don't care now if you were a spy or not?' he said. 'You could tell me now that you were a spy, and we would go on talking calmly, just as we're tal
a111: Logged on 2015-11-16 21:01 ascii_field: would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?' he said. 'No,' I said. 'Because you could never have served the enemy as well as you served us,' he said. 'I realized that almost all the ideas that I hold now, that make me unashamed of anything I may have felt or done as a Nazi, came not from Hitler, not from Goebbels, not from Himmler — but from you.' He took my hand. 'You alo
mircea_popescu: allow me to offer you a traditional "you guise are fulla shit" alfie.
asciilifeform: regardless, kanzure , why is it necessary for the droplets to fly through the air onto the target? why not let'em diffuse through a sheet of mylar through small hole burned by laser, say
asciilifeform: layerwise.
mircea_popescu: can have mylar weaved with the pores, for not so much money.
kanzure: throughput is most important aspect of the setup; air is not important.
asciilifeform: also POSaM (linked device design) is a little antiquated, yes '04 but fpga already existed, why require megabux pci i/o card
kanzure: because they are biologists and don't understand technology
asciilifeform: fair'nuff
mircea_popescu: yep he is correct, in the negative sense. "they do not understand what are the REAL limits imposed on them, so they just go along social lines".
asciilifeform: also seems like ideal design would be something quite like colour laserprinter, with N drums, 1 per reagent
asciilifeform: adhere electrostatically ( drum of selenium, charges optically in wanted regions )
kanzure: need really really high throughput, i am 3 minutes away from proposing inkjet with 1 billion valves
asciilifeform: why billion valve
asciilifeform: how many reagents , 4 ?
kanzure: ~12
mircea_popescu: ideally you get something denser than trad printer. if you manage 2-3k dpi (with a tractor!) then you can just prepare your receiver on an endless sheet of paper (process upstream) and just print and print and print. constantly. sort-of how the correct re-asphalt road crew works.
kanzure: ~12 includes cleaning reagents and stuff
mircea_popescu: kanzure the solution is above, over time. no cleaning. just roll the sheet .
kanzure: also need to do multi-pass over same spots btw, about 100 * (steps per base pair addition), where 100 is number of bp or nucleotides (nt)
mircea_popescu: why need to multipass ? (can have multipe printers).
asciilifeform: so you have closed loop of substrate going through 'printer', rather than sheet
asciilifeform: moebius, even, if you like.
mircea_popescu: think of a long sheet of substrate, with prepper and as many prinbter machines as passes needed downstream.
asciilifeform: would work perfectly fine with 1
mircea_popescu: you could in principle do 1m/s which could be worth 10k or so per line at 10k or so lines per meter ie 100mn each second.
kanzure: ok. so 1 billion valves * n=100 printheads where n was used for total dna molecule length
mircea_popescu: kanzure do not scale the printing head ; scale the printed matter.
mircea_popescu: cheaper to get a billion that way.
asciilifeform: charged drum would give same effect as billion printheads
asciilifeform: (consider res of even cheap laser treekiller )
kanzure: for charged drum i would have to pretend to know material science things
asciilifeform: nah long ago mature tech
mircea_popescu: and meanwhile in #eulora lulz : <kisspunch> i don't know what the shit any of this is <mircea_popescu> yeah, there's A LOT you don't know. <kisspunch> mircea_popescu: fuck you and your ecosystem
asciilifeform: just gotta find a drum coating that won't dissolve in acetonitrile etc
mircea_popescu: ceramix.
mircea_popescu: evidently.
asciilifeform: still cheaper than 1bil of individually addressable physical objects...
mircea_popescu: yep.
asciilifeform: though incidentally might be interesting to use a decapped sram as a 'printhead'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710048 << of course it's as corrupt as it gets, what. but you have a point, should prolly be a qnta.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:41 asciilifeform: but largely unrelatedly : BingoBoingo ( qntra fodder ? ) , mircea_popescu : https://archive.is/E5Fyk << recent lulz re the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709834 folx
mircea_popescu: it's basically a sort of mini-mit, us equiv of "state assets corp of china", exact implementation of "putin has billions hidden away across the world" except for lizzards.
asciilifeform: воровской общак
asciilifeform: ^ handy tho not esp. translatable name for the arrangement
mircea_popescu: the funniest thing to me is that this sad state of affairs gives them no pause. "what orcs ? WE ARE THE ORCS!"
mircea_popescu: side beenfit of selecting for stupid. ftr, i know of no other nazism that actually put idiocy in the spec for aryanism.
asciilifeform: britain.
asciilifeform: ( as described by ol' mr. o )
mircea_popescu: notrly. how do you mean ?
mircea_popescu: ol' mr. o was a by-the-book jealous faggot.
asciilifeform: 'After all, they belonged to a class with a certain tradition, they had been to public schools where the duty of dying for your country, if necessary, is laid down as the first and greatest of the Commandments. They had to feel themselves true patriots, even while they plundered their countrymen. Clearly there was only one escape for them - into stupidity. They could keep society in its existing shape only by being unable to grasp th
asciilifeform: at any improvement was possible. Difficult though this was, they achieved it, largely by fixing their eyes on the past and refusing to notice the changes that were going on round them.'
mircea_popescu: "why that stupid and not me ? i'm fabulous ?" "yes, but you correctly evaluate yourself to be stupid ; and incorrectly evaluate what you don't understand about him to be similar-stupid, which it is not."
asciilifeform: ( in 'lion & unicorn' )
mircea_popescu: i do not buy his prancing.
asciilifeform: lol, selling it for same price i bought it
mircea_popescu: notice that britain sunk slowly while those "stupid" were in charge and utterly collapsed once o's own bretheren took over.
mircea_popescu: because blair was correct about himself. yes, he was stupid.
asciilifeform: they were in drivers seat for ww1, which nailed that world.
mircea_popescu: actually, boar wars nailed it imo. well, not imo : caragiale says so, i believe.
BingoBoingo: Oh, SLPC is lolz
mircea_popescu: survived napoleon somehow, got wiped by a guy who literally believed earth is flat.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710052 << quite not 0. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-27#1703771
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 17:48 asciilifeform: predicted effect : 0
a111: Logged on 2017-08-27 22:38 mircea_popescu: teh very respectable southern poverty law center. and i bet you bitcoin to donuts they didn't actually pay jack for it, either.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710055 << cool.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 18:01 shinohai: Meanwhile, I invited the alleged instagram haxor https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1133449 here for an interview and tips on how to keep a website up when "facebook is buying up all the doxagram tld's"
asciilifeform: i meant effect of the reveal
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710137 << nice going eh! how's life now that living again ? :D
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:02 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710087 <-- so far so good. building icestorm tools, pnr, verilog synthesis works after adding clang and other assorted crap. will work out the arduino part later.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710146 << fwiw my 80s lego did include engine. and also various non-fungible parts such as engine blocks cut out with pistons visibly going in and out, and proper (and working) implementation of automotive steering couplings.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:04 phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
mircea_popescu: and so on.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-09-02.log.html#t19:34:56
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-09-02 19:34:56: <kisspunch> gcc 7.1.1 20170630 / ld 2.28.0.20170506 / FT-Jam 2.5.3
mircea_popescu: they are up to gcc SEVEN ?!
mircea_popescu: everything in empire of stupid must end up like mozilla, version 500+ ?
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1481878 << would a sort of bibliography/encyclopedia be useful in the lordship's opinion? have entries for figures that come up often; luby, naggum, etc. obviously these are googleablelier than the dictionary entries, but might benefit from the trilema, # or no #, treatment...?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 01:33 mircea_popescu: ^ if anyone has suggestions...
asciilifeform thinks it would
mircea_popescu: pretty good idea yeah
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710383 <-- not bad at all! long way to go still, though. :)
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 22:31 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710137 << nice going eh! how's life now that living again ? :D
mircea_popescu: hehe
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710390 <-- aha, "agile". let alone version numbers, the breaking changes they introduce from one version to another seems to grow exponentially. progress!
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 22:49 mircea_popescu: they are up to gcc SEVEN ?!
mircea_popescu: point in case : gcc broke the ints AGAIN http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-09-02.log.html#t20:21:50
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:21:50: <kisspunch> Same error, fuller logs: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wFttt/?raw=true
kanzure: "Male microchimerism in the human female brain" http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045592

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