mircea_popescu: im not going to have my tech people do backflips to seamlessly bridge imperial idiocy into reality when i could just have the marketing people point out to how the empire lied by making the difference a point of difference.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i made a stab of computing a lower bound of bitness for hypothetical '4096b of possible prime' but ran out of juice.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 01:02 mircea_popescu: im not going to have my tech people do backflips to seamlessly bridge imperial idiocy into reality when i could just have the marketing people point out to how the empire lied by making the difference a point of difference.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 19:29 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737247 << it looks like a properly structured scheme evaluator, but it's ~explicitly~ lacking a native cons, which might be a very good exercise for whoever™ adding a static allocation space, adding mark-and-sweep, then all those To_Unbounded_String look like they can be simply search/replaced
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik "nextprime" or anything like it is not used
asciilifeform: somewhat counterintuitively, you still get same result ( minus the time sidechannel leak, naturally )
asciilifeform: ( there are still fewer primes than 2^4096bit phase space )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, because see, if you don't use nextprime you lack the "nop bridge" so to speak. rolling number 6 does not take you to 7. to get 7 you need a natural 7, and this is equiprobable to rolling a natural 2^74207281-1 on the space of (0,2^74207281-1).
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 20:35 diana_coman: I can't seem to find in the logs any discussion re duplex construction/duplexing the sponge i.e. keccak's authors own proposal of using keccak for authenticated encryption; did anyone look into this?
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> (asciilifeform's ticker idea) << nah, autospeaking bots to be kept at a minimum which is 0. << for the curious, why is say deedbot's rss announcer a non-auto event whereas a market movement isn't?
mircea_popescu: but if you wish to argue it in substance, the fiat valuation of bitcoin is broadly irrelevant -- to bitcoin, to the actrual things the fiat turds misclaim to represent, etcetera. whereas the penmanship of the l1 is relevant by definition.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 02:07 mircea_popescu: but if you wish to argue it in substance, the fiat valuation of bitcoin is broadly irrelevant -- to bitcoin, to the actrual things the fiat turds misclaim to represent, etcetera. whereas the penmanship of the l1 is relevant by definition.
asciilifeform: ( i could even readily believe that an , e.g., 25x rise in the heathenbux:btc exch rate would make no practical diff to mircea_popescu . but i suspect that i am not the only one here for whom it would make a palpable diff. )
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737414 <- confirmed; I do NOT use any nextprime or other "rng"-parts from gpg; current rsatron prototype simply grabs nbits from fg, flips the 2 top bits and 1 bottom bit as per previous discussion and then checks if result is prime; if prime then keep, otherwise discard and try again; no "add 2 until prime" or other such thing
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 01:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik "nextprime" or anything like it is not used
apeloyee: fwiw I just realized that this ^ leaks a little via the modulus
apeloyee: if the modulus is M, then p,q>M/2^2048 (because p,q<2^2048)
apeloyee: if "no leaks on principle", this needs to be dealt with
apeloyee: can't see how to plug it completely though
apeloyee: if M is say, 1.999999 * 2^2047, then ~20 first bits of p and q are known
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734517 << not quite. for encryption, if I get your modulus, and you actually want to read my messages, I can generate a public exponent between M/2 and (say) 3M/4, and attach it to the message in plaintext.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 22:03 asciilifeform: not knowing the e has exactly same effect as not knowing half of the n.
apeloyee: assuming M is a modulus of a useful RSA key, this will work
apeloyee: (i.e. M is not prime, and not single-digit)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 19:36 asciilifeform: and get rid of the pointers.
apeloyee: grrr. "M is say, 1.999999 * 2^2047" << 2^4065, of course
diana_coman: apeloyee, if I understand that correctly basically the only way to plug that leak would be to give up on diddling p and q, including setting size; which would mean just get random pairs of primes until their product fits the desired number of bits for the key; obv this lands into the trouble of having one of them too small
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737264 <-- strings are (lisp) lists-of-characters. which, as it is, unfortunately makes parsing and evaluating builtin functions (e.g. cons, car, cdr) a pain in the ass. can be structured cleanly though. also, this makes it not a simple matter of find+replace in shithub scheme.adb.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-13 19:35 asciilifeform: phf: ideally i'd get rid of Ada.Strings , full stop
apeloyee: diana_coman: if keeping the minimum of 2^2047 for primes, you can, for example, generate primes between 2^2047 and 2^2049, and start over if the modulus is unacceptable. not sure what minimum for p and q makes sense.
diana_coman: apeloyee, my first thought went that way but then on one hand this just makes the interval larger basically and on the other hand I have no idea how to even evaluate the compromise (i.e. how large interval is large enough anyway, leaving aside that the how big is big enough for p and q is not that terribly clear either -at least not to me); in other words I can see it as an improvement but I can't actually evaluate it clearly
diana_coman: that being said, I can't quite see it being any *worse* than this affair with fixed size AND fixed top bits
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:09 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734517 << not quite. for encryption, if I get your modulus, and you actually want to read my messages, I can generate a public exponent between M/2 and (say) 3M/4, and attach it to the message in plaintext.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no communication among unknown parties. someone somewhere gives you a key.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:25 diana_coman: apeloyee, if I understand that correctly basically the only way to plug that leak would be to give up on diddling p and q, including setting size; which would mean just get random pairs of primes until their product fits the desired number of bits for the key; obv this lands into the trouble of having one of them too small
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 01:09 asciilifeform: the way i'd implement the whole shebang, is simply to reject both primes if the highest bit of pq is not 1 .
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 03:58 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737253 << time will tell. Depends on how much the logs-to-date worth of archives end up being in drive space. Bandwidth also a factor. Many things left to be sussed out.
asciilifeform: imho ^ is The Right Thing, at least for folx who aren't generating keys in a burning hurry
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 06:15 hubud: stumbled on trilema blog last week, been reading nearly nonstop since..
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I meant in the final pair; i.e. you get p=3 and q=2^4095+1 sort of thing; ofc throw both in a pair if product not right size; but if not enforcing any size condition at all on p and q then you can end up with any small prime too
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:22 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737268 <-- this. ftr, current adalisp prototype (not-yet-published and thus yet-vapourware!) represents "pointers" as indices in a statically-allocated array.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:29 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737294 <-- not sure if possible with ffatronic ada subset, though, because of "no dynamic objects" restriction. in my (yet-unpublished) prototype, lisp memory size is a static knob.
asciilifeform: spyked: i use generic, which (quite unlike in cpp) results in a fully static structure that is created at runtime
asciilifeform: diana_coman: calculate the probability of fatally small p or q.
mircea_popescu: afaik "shadow brokers" didn't release this principal rsa exploitation tool of "teh equation group", but : imagine you have a machine a) working on your own special-purpose made prng ; and b) generating rsa keys all the time and on call.
mircea_popescu: you now look for the signature blocks of a in b, and have the whole show.
asciilifeform: generally there are cheaper ways to make use of 'key' to chump rng
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:33 apeloyee: diana_coman: if keeping the minimum of 2^2047 for primes, you can, for example, generate primes between 2^2047 and 2^2049, and start over if the modulus is unacceptable. not sure what minimum for p and q makes sense.
mircea_popescu: though /me is consoled to see bright minds have the same intuitive inclination.
asciilifeform: i'ma half a mind to build that antenna , btw, and see how long before confiscated
a111: Logged on 2017-11-04 14:22 mircea_popescu: consider the following point : the recent las vegas shooter had bought a room ; and had ferried a quarter ton of materiel up there ; and then the concert started, and he sat.
asciilifeform: in sadder noose, cheapest bolix ivory microscopy quote, chinese, that covers all the layers ( metal and passivation ) is ~30,000 usd.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem with "complexify the code machine" tendency. somehow it appears intuitively evident that having a portion of the code INSIDE the machine is "a more complex, therefore a more secure system". it is not. 100% of the key belongs in the key.
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental, and perhaps only result to date of cryptology.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 23:00 mircea_popescu: much saner to put all gays in jail because "they offend baby jezuz" than to put all pedos in jail because "they harm little kids"
a111: Logged on 2017-05-07 05:09 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i'm preparing popcorn for when they finally unearth the pedophilia issue. so far swimming in the brackish water of imaginary problems that are only problems ot the problemizers.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-03 19:26 mircea_popescu: Framedragger "have you tried not wanting to fuck guys???" whadda ya know, next they'll "cure" pedos. because they're so totally unlike gays and everything.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-21 22:18 mircea_popescu: hence all the discussions re "fags got their weddings, pedos are next".
a111: Logged on 2015-04-30 15:40 mircea_popescu: incidentally, the original (mostly politically driven) explanation for violence against homosexuals - some sort of "homophobia" suffers a lot seeing how ALL SORTS of other sexual behaviours elicit the same violent response. such as transsexualism, or pedophilia.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 01:01 mircea_popescu: the very notion that the us has any sort of purpose, not even conscious or expressible, but any sort whatsoever is ridiculous on its face. it has all the purpose of a shambling headless zombie. which is why they're stuck trying to invent nonsense, "women and gayz! anti pedo!!" etc.
a111: Logged on 2015-02-24 21:00 mircea_popescu: who cares that pedo today ==== faggot 1965.
a111: Logged on 2015-02-24 21:00 mircea_popescu: the gays got their way with marriage prior to the freeze, but that's it. pedos aren't getting theirs.
mircea_popescu: there's prolly some stuff on trilema too but too lazy to dig moar. shoulds suffice i guess.
mircea_popescu: the meet in the middle etc thing i saw was far from instantaneous. maybe better technologies do exist, but anwyay
mircea_popescu: "doable", yes, but nobody's writing a php script of this to put on his site.
mircea_popescu: (then again this dun say much -- phuctor, "undoable" until it was done, according to the idle wankers / "academics" publishing around it pretending to not know where they got their dataz.)
mircea_popescu: whole "civilisation" of folk hoping to pass off some tech with serials shaved off.
mircea_popescu: the necessary corelate of "no kid left behind" and "creativity!!11", after all. where's all the world's mediocrities to come up with shit ?
asciilifeform: there was a '90s american film where there is a scene, where an airplane lands in africa and in fast motion gets stripped for parts, like elephant carcass by hyenas
mircea_popescu: copy/paste wikipedia exams are a matter of necessity if you're going to bother all shepherds and whatnot daylabourers to join your "college"
asciilifeform: but there at least they dun pretend to have created the airplane.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's been films of elephant etc same.
mircea_popescu: of course they do! the saving grace is that you don't speak orc, to see the pretense.
mircea_popescu: petrus pretends to have created england ; so do romanians at that
asciilifeform: i thought in ro cosmography england was an uninteresting backwater. or is that only mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: are you aware there's a substantial ro mystico-scientism putting the etruscans as romanian derivative ? and no, it's not "ceausescu madness", ro sufragette cca 1920, exact equiv of that russian fat old woman.
asciilifeform: ( re ro crackpottery, asciilifeform is 2/3 through pacepa's tome , and marvels over the d00d's complete omission of how ~he himself~ came to be loyal servant of 'worst ever cruellest evil emperor' )
asciilifeform: or take the 'it was really the demented witch' narrative. invites the q, why did nobody have for her any poison ? really, none of the flunkies ?
mircea_popescu: imagine, he was a general. before that, colonel. earlier still, major. prior to that, lt.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz : usg focused on infiltrating and corrupting ro justice system first ; as a result in 1999 they came up with a "rehabilitation" supreme court decision. ro govt refused to recognize it, which resulted in a lot of usg agitprop material as to how "romania not yet rule of law".
mircea_popescu: kinda the blue state blueprint, in general. first subvert justice system then lie about rule of law then so following.
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, one of the dudes that somehow "failed to identify" pacepa went on to kill a coupla french spies in sudan)
BingoBoingo: Question: What is a bank reference letter?
mircea_popescu: (to ruin many "westerners" hopes and delusions of self relevancy : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737754 means that no, paris '68 is NOT necessarily more than the original later copied by obama-socialism under heading of "orange revolutions". "oh, you mean pacepa's paris v2.0 ? I SEE!.")
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 15:54 mircea_popescu: and you know, pacepa was no less than ro resident in rfg. he fucking led the east presence there for at least most of 64.
asciilifeform: re the shoemaker, asciilifeform still can't fully shake the traditional ru version , where man was plugged for paying off his national debt, rather than 'the beoble Finally Had Enuff!' usgolade nonsense.
mircea_popescu: "the people have had enough with not being able to buy consumer goods ; and if they were able to buy consumer goods they'd have wanted to "form oppinions" in the manner of ustards, and in the vein of "school exams too hard ; work too long hours ; idealised self not actualised by regime ; let other people take our industry, we'll do service "industry" ; want to live today on money we might make tomorrow IF and only if we don't
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty, I'll tell this lawyer being auditioned. I'll also ask him if he can do BROU instead of fucking Santander.
mircea_popescu: and in that vein, once one starts one doesn't end until california reconstructed.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lmao wtf is a lawyer herping about such nonsense.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I asked him for the "how do we get a corporation fast" answer. His answer is off the shelf. This isn't the first time I've heard "bank reference" being bandied aboutwith respect to opening a corporate account.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, it's not simply " paying off his national debt". it's like this : dood went deeply into debt post nixon visit, on the strength of us jewish promises (ie, tech transfer) and to the degree of their own established "deep enough to have no way out". they obviously did not deliver, but then he DID dig himself out, paid whole debt in little over decade. ie, not only that he paid it, but that he paid it "imposs
mircea_popescu: ibly" ie "does not understand how jew-worldview works!"
asciilifeform: so 'had problems'. with the murder weapon being 'uprising'
mircea_popescu: and then in SPITE of "tech control", romania was building its own computers. not good, no. yet. but it's own machine gun factory WAS better than us anything, after a 20-30 years of "not good, no".
asciilifeform: even pacepa's b00k describes a ~working~ pilfered vlsi lab
mircea_popescu: and then in spite of "political control" ie "containment policy" romania operated it's OWN gulf concessions with its own machinery and shipped the oil on its own boats made in its own factories.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if he HAD a continuator, like the chinese managed to continue xiaoping, i have little doubt i'd be all for the regime, decked in the usual "youngest general in the signals" regalia and we'd be holding this convo across the berlin wall.
mircea_popescu: of particular interest to you might be causescu's self-concept, especially items such as "a critica" (to critique). i dunno how many of his own words you've read, but the man had a very interesting (on the grounds of its incredible low level form that maintained reasonable function) husserl approach to post-hegelian dialectics.
mircea_popescu: dood also had serious emotivity probloems -- extremely shy, etcetera. epicycle is perhaps that encounter with the czechoslovak "labour people" when they ask him a (simple, let's be friends) question (context is that he's the hero, against soviet invasion, etc) and he totally can't answer.
mircea_popescu: and to most mediocre people, gave this impression of utter idiocy, because regularily contradicted their "reasonable expectations". except didn't have the mp refinement of making it painful for them later.
mircea_popescu: so the notion endured, "oh, mp doesn't understand maffs".
asciilifeform: dunno, supposedly he did make it somewhat painful for some of'em later
mircea_popescu: it's true, he doesn't. NEITHER DO YOU. without that latter part...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. the problem with the mediocre pretending to "intellectuals" is they've agreed to only hurt physcologically.
asciilifeform: i was thinking of the 'i hereby order mr.pantsuit caught and fed some radium' instances.
mircea_popescu: it has to be "mrs pantsuit, where's your having won the presidency nao ?" at the lowest.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> entirely oral thinker. << Ah, hung out with too many Frenchies did he
mircea_popescu: ideally, it's a "hey, check out how your stupidity #1 contradicts your stupidity #2, what do you have to say for your stupidity that isn't throwing a hissy fit ?"
asciilifeform: mebbe this shows that asciilifeform is same sort of peasant as the shoemaker, but finding it hard to see why not counts. having pantsuit hoisted on a public stake would even moar count imho
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hung with ~nobody. didn't even fuck around, married a 25yo whore 9-year whore, stuck to her 50 years.
mircea_popescu: i read piles of ceausescu transcripts, they're all exactly nowhere. 1968 meeting with the writer's union ? really, NOT EVEN THAT ? 1965 may 19th "who wants a seat in helicopter" one ? nope ?
mircea_popescu: after a stenograph of 1971 (aug 4) meeting at Mangalia (Neptun).
mircea_popescu: the 1965 and 1968 items absent, but pars pro toto this shall have to do.
mircea_popescu: dude has the audacity to ask for "a ballet on the topic of having finished the kolohoz-isation". you know ? at least asks the right fucking questions, even if nobody in audience has the mettle to make answer.
mircea_popescu: and he has the numbers : right here, where we happen to be, i ~know the name of the local lord~, and his numbers : 600 to 2209, he says. and what is teh retort ?
mircea_popescu: "oh the numbers are wrong". yeah, im sure they are. and the tractors invented, and the working the fields with oxen and horses and wives pre 1940 calumny, perhaps. hurr.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737789 <<< needed the same when opening a bank account in .mu, reference letter didn't need any particular judgement about whether i'd be able to meet a financial committment, but just something along the lines of "had bizns with this gentleman for X years, didn't leave with unpaid debts, isn't a fucking gypsy"
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 16:54 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I asked him for the "how do we get a corporation fast" answer. His answer is off the shelf. This isn't the first time I've heard "bank reference" being bandied aboutwith respect to opening a corporate account.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 15:30 asciilifeform: there was a '90s american film where there is a scene, where an airplane lands in africa and in fast motion gets stripped for parts, like elephant carcass by hyenas
BingoBoingo: In other news, apparently Tower 4 of the world trade center is not actually inside the world trade center free zone.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 11:25 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-13#1737264 <-- strings are (lisp) lists-of-characters. which, as it is, unfortunately makes parsing and evaluating builtin functions (e.g. cons, car, cdr) a pain in the ass. can be structured cleanly though. also, this makes it not a simple matter of find+replace in shithub scheme.adb.
phf: for example your Symbol_EqualP should just be a pointer comparison, rather than string comparison. (the whole point of a ~symbol~ over a string is that it's interned, i.e. same sequence of characters always map to the identical Symbol object)
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737542 << that's just DoS. but, if you have computational capacity, you check the padding. may also require that it's signed with my key, with the pubexp attached if you don't know it. Thus, the modulus is in principle sufficient to _initiate_ the converstaion
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 23:10 asciilifeform: returning to the exponent thing, seems that mircea_popescu is right, nothing particularly interesting can be done by distributing a pub with e' . ( other than 'believe me , his e is 3' and then messages ~to that pub~ are breakable if padding is broken. but that' sit . )
mircea_popescu: except we're currently defaulting e's no whatever, 65537
mircea_popescu: for exactly asciilifeform 's reason : shorter this way
jurov: a111: strings are sequences, not lists. cons/car/cdr does not apply, there's different set of functions for these
asciilifeform: the 'everyone has same e' thing was slipped in under clinton , when his nsa invested in 'acre of asics' with e=3|e=65537 presumption baked in
mircea_popescu: in other domestic tranquility news, just finished stuffing a mason jar with baked peppers. they have some FABULOUS kapja peppers here.
apeloyee: the amount of computation that you must do ,<< the same as for any packet: 1 mod-exp and check padding. >> and bits you must buffer, to do friend-or-foe, is considerably larger. << twice as much. might be acceptable, depending on circumstances.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: it makes , e.g., udp (512byte) impossible.
mircea_popescu: and i just appointed a new crown provider of chocolate. you should see this thing, so endearingly evidently hand-made copy of "how a chocolate looks" when hershey makes it...
asciilifeform: the sad thing is that ( at least until we get, e.g., the shortwave net, going ) there are some boxes of fixed size, that in practice gotta be sat down into if at all possible
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone wants some chocolate/coffee/whatever mp-approved products shipped lemme know ima send you a batch.
asciilifeform: ( nothing to stop you from imposing other types of hash in between, incidentally . as i did in the pubexp example )
asciilifeform: it suffers from all of the limitations of other hashes.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the correct solution to this "quickly, prime this many bits long" is a n, k tuple which contains n as the bitsize and k as the "oddness". if you want the n - 396 k = 5 prime you get 2^396- 1229
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sometimes i get this feeling like he's trying to discern if we're idiots.
asciilifeform: hey, d00d pumped his listening-before-talking muscle for so long that it's schwartzneger-sized
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737923 << i gotta add to this before it runs away : when making ~scriptlang~ ( rather than an actual lispm ) very different set of design tradeoffs might be acceptable, it they reduce complexity and in particular nonlisp LOC
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 18:50 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level)
asciilifeform: i would like to see the minimal practical nonlisp loc, in such an animal
asciilifeform: which could mean, for instance, dispensing with entire concept of interned string
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to get back to teh ceausescu lulz : he describes vasile alecsandri (a rich, old boyar who also wrote poems, very much like say pushkin, massive landholder etc. but ceausescu discusses his work in terms of oyu know, "this journalist kid from the 1800s, did his job, wrote for the people".
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt he understood alecsandri as anything else. "a writer", yes, like a sort of newspaper man ++, a young mark twain, maybe talented, his paternal job being to "make available circumstances to development".
asciilifeform: or possibly he wasn't prepared to piss on his pushkin ?
mircea_popescu: in a sense. yes, there's a certain purity in ignorance.
mircea_popescu: (but the above, there is mention made of eg, emperor going out into the pridvor, ie peasant style veranda. cuz he must've had one. and so on. how could a house be without ? esp if rich enough ?)
asciilifeform: of course reality caught up with poor shoemaker's imagination, and today's 'emperors' indeed have not only front porches but armchair with tv with foxnoose, and refrigerator full of 'bud'
mircea_popescu: not that many examples of not fundamentally braindamaged computing around.
mircea_popescu: he likes the z80 for the same reasons in the same way. and other obsolete matter.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: but on the other hand any attempt to build a sane arch, without fully grasping the bolix stack, from ic to the compiler, is lunacy.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> of course reality caught up with poor shoemaker's imagination, and today's 'emperors' indeed have not only front porches but armchair with tv with foxnoose, and refrigerator full of 'bud' << The local noise is dominated by 'bud' sales freefalling. Popular yet unverifiable by me theory is lack of once much marketed 'Born on date' discontinued by the Brazilians is letting retailers and wholesalers keep rancid product on
phf: apeloyee: i have a friend who periodically attempts to write his own programming language, but without reading any documentation. when i ask him, hey, why not read lisp in small pieces or something, he just goes "well, i'm going to learn something just by trying", which i recently realized is straight up american education model. there's nothing that comes out of it though, he just keeps banging his head against solved problems!
asciilifeform: this is the inevitable doom of people who will not read.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'
mircea_popescu: "could you guess from context what the unknown word means ???"
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental orcism, this. expressed pluriously by the orcs now inhabiting the once-proud colonies. "you couldn't know as you haven't experienced". really, bitch ? what the fuck DO YOU THINK KNOWLEDGE EVEN IS!
mircea_popescu: and so on, a whole host of, centrally, the same thing. a sort of iliterate solipsism.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
asciilifeform: just as ceaucescu was content to 'steal' vlsi from the decaying west, i am perfectly content to steal the algos from bolix.
asciilifeform: by all indications, they were pretty effective -- but, far more importantly -- extremely compact.
asciilifeform: maybe he knew that the money were running out, lol
asciilifeform: ( reti is the other half of dks-and-reti skeleton crew )
asciilifeform: iirc he is the orig author of the ersatz ivory emulator
mircea_popescu: i know a bunch of imbeciles who should speak a lot more hesitatingly than this guy. such as for instance ~everyone not-white. somehow, they don't, going all the way to like obama daring to even open his mouth in public.
asciilifeform: 'Kalman Reti worked for Symbolics from 1982 through 1992, mostly on VLSI tools for Ivory but also writing low-level device support (e.g. a LMFS recovery utility, R/W optical drive support, LZW compressor, etc.) The last few years of that were spent doing customer consulting. After being laid off when Symbolics went into chapter 11, Kalman worked for Apple in Cambridge, first on MCL and later, after MCL was sold to Digitool, on Dylan.
asciilifeform: Kalman was hired after that by Symbolics Technology, Inc., who had acquired the assets of Symbolics from the bankruptcy court, to work on further productizing the emulator for the Alpha. This was used by John Mallery at MIT to run his document distribution system for the White House during the Clinton presidency. When the owners of that venture decided that a financial company had no business owning a computer company, a private ind
asciilifeform: ividual bought the assets and Kalman spent 4 years as a "captive consultant" for him. Since 2002, when he ran out of money, I've worked for Ab Initio (doing nothing with lisp except emacs hacks).'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because you ~never read one bit. that's the issue here, whole fucking hardware is built around nonsense. nobody reads 1 bit ; and for most applications 1 byte (ie, 64 bits!) is actually an underbyte.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical pc has the following situation : 64 bit registers, 128 bit memory, 1024 bit disk sectors, 64 mb video buffers, and atop sitting a drunk driver who thinks 8 bits are a byte.
asciilifeform: item grew as the iron became available ( i do not even say 'affordable' , thing was a 'cost no object' design, like aston-martin )
mircea_popescu: he's now at describing the mindbogglingly ugly hacks of how to get 32 bit fixnums out of 36 bit words with 6 bits of tag and 2 of code and so on, "oh actually the lowe order quarter can be repurposed"
asciilifeform: same reason for ~90% of closedsourcedriverism today, say.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something deeply wrong with response to mother shrieking about her daugher being fucked diverging from beating mother up / fucking her too. but... we digress.
phf: it's funny that 36xx series is basically an improved cadr. ivory on the other hand? literally scheme86: they poached both the main guy who worked on the cpu ~and the entire toolset~. ivory was still designed on CADR (rather than smbx), because that's where scheme team designed theirs
asciilifeform: hey if pyongyang or bucharest were running a lispm project and invited defectors, i suspect folx would've come
asciilifeform: phf: aha, it was why scheme(orig. '79') cpu, evaporated
mircea_popescu: amusingly bucharest had nfi idea at the time it COULKD have done such a thing. literally 0 conception of what any of the items we're discussing here WERE. at all. not even the priors present.
asciilifeform: su had, interestingly, early and stillborn attempt at lispm
mircea_popescu: phf i had the idea cadr more of a common ancestor, to smbx too.
asciilifeform: ( died with the sunken atlantis, nothing afaik heard of it since 1990 )
phf: well, rms's nervous break down makes some sense when you actually read the code. there's a very obvious clear "steal everything that's not bolted" going on. cadr's SYSTEM sources were being developed in parallel with symbolics and LMI (to the point that there are conditionals in the cadr's code to compile os both on lmi and genera), with interactions slowly decreasing over time
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:10 asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
mircea_popescu: it is particularily difficult to explain what one means by theft of a) ideal objects by b) parties who actually own them intellectually and c) when the objects were produced within their lifetimes.
asciilifeform: he wasn't the director of lispm group or anything of the kind
mircea_popescu: control as the psychological construct is complicated.
phf: mircea_popescu: i was taking a poetic liberty there. it's the new appearance of a self serving strategy where there wasn't necessarily one (or the strategy changes drastically). the core of activity shifts elsewhere, but the original points of contact are maintained for the sole purpose of taking any new ideas that might've been introduced.
mircea_popescu: phf in the sense that they were trying to sell the machines, but avoid as much of the dev work as humanly possible ?
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, he was the proverbial nursing home patient described on trilema, who says 'died, whaddayamean, died, where is jane?! we were USED to her' re every colleague who went off to bolix or lmi
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:43 mircea_popescu: no conception of who the enemy is and why exactly, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the matter was fluid in 1980. could have been.
mircea_popescu: nytimes also didn't "picture itself in competition with the weird net kids". and so following, chuck e cheese dude's "ipad restaurant" didn't see itself in competition with phones. "it's a restaurant". no it's not.
asciilifeform: re ai lab -- mircea_popescu how do you picture a buncha taxpayer-funded academics not-'failing-to-republic' , hypothetically ?
mircea_popescu: ("oh, romanian gymnasts!!!" "yeah, right. you are aware none of the girls actually wanted to be there, yes ?")
asciilifeform: ( he worked entire fictional portrait of what imho is proper university... )
mircea_popescu: but leaving these proper statements aside -- never mind the civilisational aspect, limit yourself to culture. they might've bothered to realise the only enemy is the taxpayer, moved to limit his impact on government. exactly as the medieval collegiate disputes flew.
mircea_popescu: there were two groups worth the mention during "golden age" of europe : mechants, and scholars. the prime characteristic of either ? immune to common law process!
asciilifeform: superficially their scheme works to this day -- i.e. 'you can elect anyone you like, but he'll be a harvaprinceyalton graduate, muhahaha'
mircea_popescu: merchants had merchant code, scholars had what meanwhile became an universalised immunity, "first conviction walk"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except it doesn't do anything. works like a painting works.
asciilifeform: at this point that describes their whole civilizational shebang, the hollow husk
asciilifeform: but originally -- worked. or how do you suppose the 'ivies' got, and stayed, fat.
mircea_popescu: that final "all the better" being the republic part. they failed to construct this system whereby extreme violence applied to everyone else was a net positive, in and of itself, for no other reason.
a111: Logged on 2014-07-28 19:19 asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your boot kn
mircea_popescu: but anyway, in spite of an inability to speak in public, or to make sense, extemporaneously or not, ceausescu was a major player in the status quo of 70s and 80s. that whole "don't mix into the affairs of others", very strong nationalism, managed to paralyze the us-owned and hosted un for two decafdes.
asciilifeform: not much of a talker, but he was quick enuff on his feet ( pointedly unlike the su gerontocrats )
asciilifeform: also he had an actual nation, properly speaking, and made full use of the fact
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738408 << at the risk of repeating ancient thread, imho if there were a ready alternative ( as in geographic , rather than merely ideological ) to usa, for the remaining ~functional people to defect to -- usa wouldn't last a week
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 21:40 mircea_popescu: very much it. extremely easy to defeat ustardation : just say no. it helps if you have a fully built system providing an alternative.
asciilifeform: or at the very least would retain the threadbare sanity of usa circa 1980s
mircea_popescu: you'\re still missing the important point. usg is looking for a brand to show its large citizenry. much like every attempt to hold a tech fconference in argentina degenerates into a bunch of local tards speaking/stepping over each other to blather meaninglessly in the hope of thereby attaining a certificate of humanhood from the foreigners,
mircea_popescu: just so ustards are going to buy pacepa's nonsensical books.
mircea_popescu: the equivalent population does not exist, it's an epiphenomenon of collapsed colonies, like argentina, like america.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't think of a competent anyone in the whole us army/navy/airforce brass.
mircea_popescu: what exactly could you possibly use one for ? not like they even have the usual value of "stolen documents", i guarantee you if you examed the O-paygrade you'd find not a single soul as well informed as the famous contractor/defector.
asciilifeform: engineers likely to know moar , i suspect, than general. and cost less.
fromloper: Somehow manage to get here by clicking on contact.
asciilifeform: generally noobs are advised to read the log for a spell, before considering whether they have something to say
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'defectors' it is a quite nostalgic subject for asciilifeform , because it is an item from meanwhile wholly vanished, like roman empire, age, where escape from an empire was simply a matter of getting through a wall
fromloper: ascii I have been reading logs when i relevant, also Trilema site.
asciilifeform: ( even despite the 'being someone' point, consider that 1 sailor who jumped from sov ship. usa did not send him back... )
asciilifeform: and later was given cia medal ( afaik the only runaway to be awarded )
mircea_popescu: right, and he survived because he scared them off. laissez.
asciilifeform: i've no clue why survived ( and it is by far not the only puzzle re the d00d )
mircea_popescu: this notion that ra-ra-ra usa-america is very much post 2000 nytimes construction. people in the 60s gave almost no shits about the us, unless like the italians they cxould directly leach.
asciilifeform: possibly they kept him in whitehouse basement for 20yrs, whynot.
asciilifeform: pacepa describes the afaik factual reason why his master gave a shit : semiconductor
asciilifeform: it was the first and last thing to properly speaking happen in usa.
mircea_popescu: people wanted to see italian films with antonelli, and french stuff, not hollywood nonsense.
mircea_popescu: romanians got them from the soviets as a general rule.
mircea_popescu: me either, nor could he have. anyway, to recap -- dood was chief of ro belin residency. once retired (from field work), about simultaneous with ceausescu ascension, was promoted to strategy role in bucharest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but by the 70s his active duty time was over.
fromloper: Has anyone here ever discussed solving btc blockchain capacity problem?
mircea_popescu: defected as a 50yo. a 50yo ready to claim oswald worked for kgb.
mircea_popescu: the claim would be more presuasive had you referenced it.
fromloper: I have been looking into it and maybe there is a solution. However i am no expert computer programmer
asciilifeform: fromloper: what is the problem to which you wish to see 'a solution' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider : pacepa defected in bonn. why not in new york ? except if there was 0 reason for the spy chief to ever go to new york. and his period item (letter to dana) is knee deep in eurocentric issues. noel bernard, srsly ? who the fuck cares about noel bernard.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again not having been there, cannot say. but presumably more watched by politruk, say, in nyc, than in bonn
fromloper: Banks curently keep a records of all txs and each account holder gets a personal statement
mircea_popescu: "everyone will be main player in his own world of warcraft!"
asciilifeform: this is something yet else, gotta be saturnism or the like
BingoBoingo: So do we contact Fort Meade or jolo to get an RMA number for this one
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to put things in readily meaningful perspective : you going "oh shit, we can use this bit i dug up out of bernstein to improve phuctor speed" is 100% what a PRIME example of such "sourced tech" would have been. that the soviets'd have paid for and the whole project involved would be decorated and congratulated after taking however long, 18 months to do it.
asciilifeform: well yes it's what asciilifeform's father did for a living
mircea_popescu: that was the level. the problem with the romanians wasn't that they couldn't steal -- of course they could ; nor that it was in any way immoral or dubious to steal -- holy hell, country-in-development trying to catch up with technology, a good half of the techs involved were sympathetic anyway.
mircea_popescu: it was that a) it didn't know what to steal (as per above re lisp) and b) it couldn't steal fast enough.
asciilifeform: before i fughet, here's asciilifeform's microscopy crackpottery of the day : contact print. consider, 370,000 transistors, on item roughly 1cm x 1cm. attach to standard ccd, say the 25 megapixel sort, and image with e.g. soft xray.
mircea_popescu: anyway. between this, "tech spying" and a whole lot of coutnerintel and military wankery, you've 99% of ro activity in the cold war. the former half minor in the early part and growing monotonously to come to overshadow latter part by 70s.
mircea_popescu: the pacepa nutteries with assassinations etc -- footnote, if present. then, as now, ~nobody gave a shit.
asciilifeform: semiconductor -- was the item about which gave a shit.
mircea_popescu: you know ro made its own semiconductors. what exactly ?
asciilifeform: ( in further continuation of the microscopy q : what the everliving fuck happened to the beta ray microscope ? theoretically can do ~same thing as sem, but no need for massive electron gun, million volt power supply, or the vacuum pumps. where is it ?? )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform buys a chinesium hf-to-120mhz upconverter thing for rtlsdr , and discovers that he has to take the thing apart and trace pcb traces, and crosscheck with chipset data sheet, to learn which hose is 'in' and which is 'out' ! they did not bother to label ! ( not even in chinese . )