ben_vulpes: why are opterons so plentiful, and why are they so superior to intel chips?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i historically like'em, because -- until recently -- it was possible to use linuxbios with them
asciilifeform: they also have support for ecc ram ( *all* amd products do, but not every mobo implements. intel only supports in xeon, and artificially cripples all other chips they sell to remove ecc )
asciilifeform: i also like that amd released the chipset docs without nda bullshit ( also until quite recently )
asciilifeform: now to answer the q of why plentiful. opteron was well-represented in server market. possibly even today is.
asciilifeform: i will recommend the use of *conventional* samsungs, in a raid5 arrangement, with the understanding that disks will occasionally be switched between 'old' and 'young' boxes ( strictly those belonging to pizarro ) to prevent synchronized aging and death
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: have you unsnarled wp-admin yet? << As per those poste contents it is unsnarled. It is stock mp-wp minus the small ave1 adjustments for the php version. After logging in it takes you to the main page and you gotta click edit or something else that jumps you to a dashboard. The link labeled wp-admin does not.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> trinque: iirc it was 2.5 kW , and specified in BingoBoingo's contract with the rack supplier. but will have to ask for BingoBoingo to confirm this. << It is. Math puts it at 62.5 Watts per RU. We can get a second 2.5 kw drop for (102*2.5)*1.22=311.1 USD
asciilifeform: generally you do not want to dissipate more than 2.5kW inside one cabinet.
asciilifeform: ( unless you have an extraordinarily good chimney )
asciilifeform: nor is at easy liberty to pilfer disks, unplug cables, and commit other audacities
asciilifeform: punkman: if your item requires massive pipe, you may not be the target audience for this service currently.
punkman: asciilifeform: brings me to 2nd point. suppose I can get by with 1mbps, but I want to host a site selling replicas, shitting on trademarks, warez, some nasty outgoin spam. how long until dc pulls the plug? machines untouched, but what does that do for me?
punkman: contract almost always specify email spam
asciilifeform: at any rate, at this or any other vendor, if your contract threatens the upstream bandwidth , it will not be renewed. HOWEVER this still does not mean that your box will be stolen, or molested, if it is within BingoBoingo's power to prevent it.
asciilifeform: simply contract will not be renewed. and you will have to arrange to repossess your box.
punkman: well if the DC is run by spineless idiots, box will be stolen neh?
punkman: did BingoBoingo evaluate spine of responsible persons?
asciilifeform: there are however known dead ends. e.g. hosting in english-speaking world. and when you eliminate the known dead ends , some unknown fraction of what remains -- is the thing that you want.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: lol clearly; lend a hand and send me a link to something editable? afaict there are no pages or anything else with an edit button with which i can fuck
punkman: well if ISP would like to experiment with customers that will get your plug pulled, let me know, I'll pass it on to a couple people
asciilifeform: thank you punkman . imho ideal customer would be e.g. that nazi d00d from usa. rather than spammers.
ben_vulpes: TomServo: rent a box or a vps once we stand that machine up!
punkman: trinque: fair enough about the aroma. personally the less I have to deal with computers these days the better, so I got no plans to setup a spam box on Pizarro. hope it's some food for thought for the hosting policies that will be.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-02-18 17:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: we don't want pogos, right?
asciilifeform: pogos are not an efficient use of physical space for vps-like service , however; the vertical protrusion of the disk is unfortunate.
asciilifeform: but if someone wants to subscribe a dozen pogos, he can be rightfully charged for 1 3u parallelepiped , given as that is what they occupy when placed on a shelf.
asciilifeform: ( if they are the type of pogo that runs off sd card : then 1u parallelepiped . )
asciilifeform: http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 << quite unsurprisingly , mp's reaction, 'fly in it?! i wouldn't walk under it', so much he hates my face. which is up to him. however asciilifeform ~is~ 50% owner ~and~ technical director, and if someone wishes for him not to be, will have to buy up his share, and take up the work , rather than to try to pantsuit away his ownership.
asciilifeform: mod6: i can't think of anything remaining to add, the orig item summarizes
mod6: BingoBoingo: Q is to you too, plz answer for record in #trilema
asciilifeform: mod6: since the point is being pressed : i refuse to participate for a second time in a project where militantly technically illiterate but iron-cocksure fella wrecks the thing and i eat the blame.
asciilifeform: in PARTICULAR re the 'using konsoomer phenoms' horror.
asciilifeform: i did make an informal offer to sell my share to a competent replacement , but there are afaik no takers , so it has not grown to status of an arrangement, is merely an informal suggestion of yet.
asciilifeform: i've a very large pile of chores to attend to, so bbl .
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: i'm accepting the management critiques raised on teh blog. i move that the board appoint me manager of Pizarro; i'll turn around and delegate technicalia to asciilifeform and customer relations to mod6
ben_vulpes: moreover, at the risk of further complexicating things and because diana_coman raises a good question; i'd like to clarify language around Pizarro's board to say that both asciilifeform and the Foundation may emplace one board member, and the resulting board will pick a manager which probably oughta be myself
lobbes: http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 << I, once time comes, would be interested in volunteering in helping BingoBoingo flog vps/shared hosting (for phree, when time allows) under direction of said BB. I assume others might too (shinohai mebbe?); a profitable Pizarro is in many's best interests after all
shinohai: Agreed lobbes, I told mod6 from first day I am willing to do whatever possible since I have mountains of free time on hands most days.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: please let me know what operating system to install, physical checks to perform, and anything else this shared hosting box needs done to it between when it hits my porch and when i box it for installation
BingoBoingo: mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: Signed and ready to deed, awaiting instructions
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ty. i'ma set it up, will take a while.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: box : ideally, gentoo per my classical recipe. errything else can be emplaced remotely.
BingoBoingo: Do we want to start carving up the IP range and give everything static addresses?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and really gotta have that calendar , to show where the bill cycles fall. ( and i can't think of any reason for it not to be public , also. mod6 , ben_vulpes , what do you think ? )
BingoBoingo: We have .194 through .251 open at the moment. Carve away.
trinque: btw would be nice to see a contract for 1U slot rental *before* ben_vulpes lugs my machine down
trinque: I know y'all just got the formation of company done, just nudging
mod6: <@mod6> I don't object. But BingoBoingo, and asciilifeform can weigh in yet if they wanna change that wording. << are you guys good to go with this as is? If not yet, or haven't looked it over, np. Can wait.
BingoBoingo: I'm good, ready to fire into deedbot when instructed
BingoBoingo: The point of hammering the thing out is, it is a fixed document. Maybe it is suceeded by a new document replacing it, say if it gets bought out. Not exactly the sort of thing that ever gets patched in place.
mod6: asciilifeform: will you also post your raw copy that removed the CRLFs?
asciilifeform: mod6: you should end up with it if you press the above, neh
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is less that i expect to see the thing amended, and more that we have currently exactly 1 tool for 'let's these N d00dz all be certain of signing the same document and to make it clear that they in fact did'
trinque: not my business, but BingoBoingo I dunno. changing business agreements by consent of the board is pretty normal.
trinque: obviously this doesn't happen for matters at the level of "what's for lunch", but they do
asciilifeform: the only down-side i can think of , for the vgenesisation, is that there is currently no way to feed it straight into deedbot in this form
BingoBoingo: While waiting for the contract, I have decided to punch up my fiat side web presence a bit with WOT'y Republican values. Also some filler for length because this is the toilet side facing presence: http://aaronrogier.net/ Same mugshot
ben_vulpes: signature of the genesis and subsequent patches indicates "i have read, and it does what it says on the tin" traditionally in re trb; where here pressing produces a document that must then itself be signed.
ben_vulpes: mod6: what was your problem with that vpatch? it presses just fine for me
mod6: oh me too. the diff just didn't come out the way i expected.
mod6: and rather than spend 2 hours coming through all that. just figure, hey, let's just use 1 doc, with a SHA512. When I get the doc, i'll check the hash, if it matches, then i'll comb through it again.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: do you have 24/7 dc access? pantsuit hours? what's the deal here
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: So far I have only arrived at the datacenter during regular business hours, though I have remained well past them. Since you are going to take a more active role in management, it would probably be a good idea to introduce you to the Latecho team soon.
BingoBoingo: And 24/7 access to my office at the CoWork has been tested thoroughly. I suspect I might be more familiar to some of the night and weekend doormen than the day people who relieve them from duty.
mod6: Might be helpful instead of me asking stuff all the time.
mod6: can say, "mod6, check the calendar hurr durr."
ben_vulpes: i'll noodle on it mod6, but in the meantime just ask me. if it gets painfully repetitive i'll do something about it, but atm there are 2 bills to pay; the DC and payroll, and both are due by the end of the month
BingoBoingo: <mod6> BingoBoingo: If you feel up to it, you can sign that vpatch as well, and post your sig on your site/blog. It's optional though, you're already good to go with deedbot. << Will try to get around to it.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: so i shouldn't bet on being able to get in on the weekend? << I wouldn't go that far. All the monkeys who make decisions though do a strict Monday to Friday schedule here though.
ben_vulpes: aight well go see if you can get in this weekend, okay?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i recommend that the machine you uncrated today , be featured on ( as mp termed ) 'gear list', it is available in ~unlimited (for all practical purpose) qty, and for ~fixed cost
asciilifeform: and now you know its cost ( with disks, brackets, cables )
BingoBoingo: If we learned anything assuming useful quantity, much less "unlimited" can be a stretch until the iron has been seen and counted. Not long after MP posted that AMD FX chip in chan, the price did jump
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's a surprising abundance of preowned opterons of very, very reasonable 'bang for buck' .
asciilifeform: and it is there because in corporate idjit usa 'used' is anathema
BingoBoingo: Get used box truck, fill with boxes, road trip?
asciilifeform: somehow they think that a 5yo box is like an old toothbrush, even though moore's law has been ~dead for, what, 7.
TomServo: asciilifeform: which opterons are you referring to? do you have an associated recommended mobo?
asciilifeform: TomServo: the chips in question are 6000 series, in 'g34' socket, sold in 12 and 16-core variants.
TomServo: found the chip details, thanks... still looking for the board
asciilifeform: TomServo: it is sadly uneconomical to assemble these machines from loose components ( from a isp pov . ) they are sold 'by the pound' in surplus market. the maker i have the most positive history with is 'supermicro', and hence i recommended one to ben_vulpes ( also sitting on top of a pile of same, made much earlier for snsa )
asciilifeform: if you were to try to assemble one the way a reasonably literate person assembles his pc, you will find that you will pay a substantial % of what ben_vulpes paid for his supermicro, JUST FOR THE IRON SHEETS AND RAILS, and power supply etc., which is obscene any way you cut it
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i recommend that the machine you uncrated today , be featured on ( as mp termed ) 'gear list', it is available in ~unlimited (for all practical purpose) qty, and for ~fixed cost << So is today hardware talk day?
BingoBoingo: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-2-6#299758 << RE the FX, the number of downclocking steps it has for power management does seem like it could be an advantageous offering. Delivers some leverage on the power consumption. as it isn't likely all of them are going to be completley spun up all the time.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-02-06 01:54 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo phf trinque diana_coman so i'm thinking of basically getting a dozen amd fx-8350s (because just 125w compared to say fx-9590s 220) racked in u2 mbs (say maybe ASRock 970M PRO3 ? i thinkl that fits in 2u neh ?) with 64 gb ram each and a coupla ssds ? any complaints/suggestions ?
BingoBoingo: Alternatively if we can find something that fits an 6.7 × 6.7 inch mini-itx target size a number of multi mobo chassis options open up in 1U and 2U heights.
mod6: ok, take your time. another thing to consider is if we take it on as a "loan" or what not -- what happens if S.NSA closes its doors?
mod6: we just pay out the cash to them at that time I guess?
ben_vulpes: well they gotta negotiate either a payment on the debt or a conversion to equity at that time, a burdern their liquidator will bear
ben_vulpes: i just calculated a 4.85% cash discount and 5.63% credit fee
mod6: <@ben_vulpes> well they gotta negotiate either a payment on the debt or a conversion to equity at that time, a burdern their liquidator will bear << ok makes sense
mod6: <@ben_vulpes> i just calculated a 4.85% cash discount and 5.63% credit fee << ok so we're kinda in-line here.
mod6: I think it's a reasonable proposal to accept. Shall we chew on it? asciilifeform needs to sound off too.
ben_vulpes: yeah i don't mind this; i'm going to put at least one into every leased machine (more if customers want 'em) and then charge on the same basis i'm charging for everything else: 20% markup if the year is paid in full, otherwise a 100% markup for month-to-month
ben_vulpes: anyways mod6 yes, still need asciilifeform to opine. relevant point is that the charter mandates that common stock, the kind that convertible notes will convert to if they're not paid down is non-voting.
ben_vulpes: trinque: for rackspace 141.7 USD/mo, for 36 FG it's .45 BTC cash and .5 BTC convertible credit; btw asciilifeform please to chime in soon on acceptability of convertible note to S.NSA for 36 FG in the amount of .5 btc
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: are there screws for bolting rails into the cab?
ben_vulpes: and if there aren't, please lay in a store
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: odds that you'll get your capital contribution confirmed before i stamp this statement at the end of the month?
ben_vulpes: trinque: you want just the one fg or two?
ben_vulpes: drafted stock warrants and this month's statement; just waiting on trinque to get back to me on the qty of fuckgoats he wants to buy and mod6 to pay for his fuckgoats, asciilifeform to chime in on fuckgoats arrival date and then i'll pull the trigger on the plane tickets down south and wrap up this statement
shinohai: gm as usual i am early to bed, qntra incoming.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: are there screws for bolting rails into the cab? << Last time the datacenter provided the rack studs. I can walk over to tres cruces and grab some along with some cables de alimentacion. How many do we need?
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-02-27 08:11 ben_vulpes: drafted stock warrants and this month's statement; just waiting on trinque to get back to me on the qty of fuckgoats he wants to buy and mod6 to pay for his fuckgoats, asciilifeform to chime in on fuckgoats arrival date and then i'll pull the trigger on the plane tickets down south and wrap up this statement
ben_vulpes: trinque: ping me with results of search, mine has been fruitless. if software raid, will do.
trinque: asciilifeform: I thought your work here was setting up a customer. no?
trinque: I didn't have to buy this machine, bought it for this, in a thread with you present.
trinque: this waiting later and then going "oh, should've $x".. aha.
trinque: and I bet if I find an LSI card you'll go "oh, should've been specific LSI"
asciilifeform: trinque: my work pertains strictly to machines purchased under banner of pizarro, for lease or vpsication. folx colocating can ask ~nicely~ for tips re iron, but they are not within my duty. ( ben_vulpes , mod6 , invited to comment re this verdict. )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is trinque's machine personally owned, or commissioned by us, and i somehow missed this ?
trinque: if you somehow begrudge my leasing space I don't need to support your business, please let me know.
trinque: I know there's a RAID chip in it that other people are using. This guy comes back later with a useless recommendation when he was present in the thread in which I purchased it in the first place.
asciilifeform: folx can colocate anything they like. even a commodore-64. asciilifeform merely observes that his sworn duty re curation extends only to such boxes as ben_vulpes & mod6 formally commission under the pizarro banner. but i'll happily give folx tips re iron, if they bother to ask me ~prior~ to buying it.
trinque: I'm still renting the space, but do you really think this is how it oughta work?
ben_vulpes: trinque: yo i'm laboring under the impression that you did time in the server mines and knew what you were doing
ben_vulpes: expecting asciilifeform to read every colo thread in detail is an unbounded liability on my engineers time
trinque: I am not under the impression that the raid chip in that box is decorative.
mod6: So, my thought here is... perhaps if a customer wants a colocated box, he ought to set it up ahead of time, then ship it wherever to be installed. If a customer wants Pizarro to set it up for him, maybe there is a service fee involved.
mod6: Just sayin', we're probably going to have similar problems such as this quite a bit. Just thinking ahead to get out in front of it.
trinque: sure. in this case, I purchased this box the moment I knew there was going to be a Pizarro to home it, and had to have it to ben_vulpes ~immediately, or I'd have built it here and shipped.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: in reviewing statements, it looks like you closed january sitting on some twenty bitcents of cash and leperolade each; can you provide an accounting for these stashes? << The cash balance of the bitcents is the same. I'll walk out ang grab the rack studs and prices for cat 5 and power cables then deliver the USD accounting.
BingoBoingo: And I will also grab prices for network cable at length, just in case the local import weird leaves them the less expensive way to do it.
BingoBoingo: Well, I'll walk out there after I write up this latest watermelon outta Sudafrica.
mod6: <@ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: get 36 please << so you may need 4 rack bolts (for the front tabs of the boxes) per machine. i certainly isn't horrible to have extras on hand.
mod6: (not sure if the 36 account for that or not, my guess is not)
mod6: imho, you're going to want to have an assortment of : 3 sizes of Phillips screw drivers, 3 sizes of flat-heads, a needle-nose pliers, a slip-joint or channel lock / tongue & groove pliers, wire cutters/strippers, RJ45 crimper?, regular dead-blow hammer, rubber mallet, nylon mallet, rolls of electrical tape...
mod6: probably 500 velcro straps for cable management
BingoBoingo: <mod6> <@ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: get 36 please << so you may need 4 rack bolts (for the front tabs of the boxes) per machine. i certainly isn't horrible to have extras on hand. << Just acquired the rack studs and prices, the studs came in a bag of 50
BingoBoingo: <mod6> imho, you're going to want to have an assortment of : 3 sizes of Phillips screw drivers, 3 sizes of flat-heads, a needle-nose pliers, a slip-joint or channel lock / tongue & groove pliers, wire cutters/strippers, RJ45 crimper?, regular dead-blow hammer, rubber mallet, nylon mallet, rolls of electrical tape... << There are ample screwdrivers (phillps, flat, torx, precision, and an assortment of bits for tamper resistant screws)and
BingoBoingo: needle nose pliers on my desk. Wire cutters/stripeprs too.
BingoBoingo: The claw hammer is a 12 ounce estwing deal. Precision screwdrivers, tamper resistant bit set, and pliers are Klein. Also have a healthy surplus of carbide utility knife blades here.
BingoBoingo: Alright precios por effectivo: 12.81 US per 50 rack stud kit, 0.54 USD per meter of network cable, Feeding cable (yes, they call them cables de alimentacion here) 4.87 each.
BingoBoingo: The other option for network cables is Zona Laptop stocks 5 meter ethernet cables for 3 USD
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: any ideas on secure storage for drive spaces and hardware? << Inside the rack can work. For smaller items other lockable spaces (Cowork, hostel) inaccessible to the street bums are available.
ben_vulpes: trinque: nah, no time to bridge it to the outside world
ben_vulpes: paste me an ssh key and i'll slam it down, though
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Are you setting up trinque's box with a static ip from our range or does it need dhcp?
ben_vulpes: draft contract specifies a single ip but i have a hunch he'll want two
ben_vulpes: anyways it has dhcpcd for ease of bootstrapping; trinque can chime in on how he plans to set it up
trinque: since the IP situation sounds fluid, dhcp is preferable
trinque: y'all can set up permanent leases on your dhcp server and control it from there
BingoBoingo: Well, we have .193 through .251 open now and with a static ip nothing needs to be done other than plugging it in. With dhcp we have to go through the dark arts of getting the dhcp server on the switch to work, an affair which is almost certainly going to incur some unknown quantity of downtime. Static would mean editing /etc/network/interfaces during the transition period to the new ip range and restarting networking. Then for a while
BingoBoingo: it would listen to ips out of both blocks. Once I get the fiat side report from down under done here I will get back into digging into switch documentation.
ben_vulpes: sounds like trinque gets static ips, at least for now. preferable this way imho.
mod6: Eventually having some sort of DHCP server won't be a bad idea, static ip allocation can be an additional fee. Down the road type of thing.