Logs for #asciilifeform

Go to: #trilema #pizarro #asciilifeform #trilema-mod6 #chainstate #eulora

2019-8-31 | 2019-10-1

shinohai: asciilifeform: I wrote up a little diceware script in lisp today, do you still have that Romanian wordlist hanging about on your site somewhere?
shinohai: (I accidently deleted from btcinfo, lost link to yours)
asciilifeform: shinohai: it's exactly where was before
asciilifeform: see in 'misc' sidebar.
shinohai looks
shinohai: Aha you had the *dictionary* I had forgotten the dicelist I was looking for was Trilema item http://trilema.com/2012/romanian-dicelist/
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 17d 14h 47m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 18d 3h 5m
asciilifeform: !o uptime
ossabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 19h 15m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 19d 2h 32m
asciilifeform: !o uptime
ossabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 2d 18h 42m
verisimilitude: I'm starting work on networking libraries in Ada; I've started with UDP; I'd appreciate receiving some thoughts on this package specification:
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/udp.ads
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2557
verisimilitude: I'm aware of your library, asciilifeform, and I've taken a look at how you approach the problem for some things.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: what do you propose to do differently ?
verisimilitude: My library is more abstract and uses an approach that entirely ignores the existence of Unix and C in the package specification.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: how do you intend to put the os glue? inline asm ?
verisimilitude: I intend to only do so in the body of the package, which any user of the library wouldn't need be aware of.
verisimilitude: My library also makes fewer decisions than yours, such as the datagram size.
asciilifeform: i confess i do not see what is gained. it isnt as if user of my udp lib needs to know anything of the c glue.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: diana_coman's variant already has a knob for packet size.
verisimilitude: Oh, that one uses indefinite types, then?
asciilifeform: i confess i utterly don't grasp : why not pick and open problem ? why this ?
asciilifeform: *an open
verisimilitude: This is work for other things.
verisimilitude: My UDP interface will resemble the TCP interface I've planned in several ways, but I've not started on that beyond some design, yet.
verisimilitude: I don't like POSIX Sockets, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: do you intend to make own ? how will it differ from traditional ?
asciilifeform must bbl. verisimilitude if you write at length on the subj, i'ma read when get the chance.
verisimilitude: I'm still muddy with some details, concerning the TCP library, but that's due to my more general being green to Ada; I should also note I want to design similiar libraries for Common Lisp, so I'm designing libraries to work roughly the same in both languages.
verisimilitude: Clearly, for TCP, the client should have little or no difference from the client of the file system.
verisimilitude: As for the server, I'd prefer a ``connection generator'' approach, where you have a server object which provides the means for different tasks to get bidirectional streams representing a single connection that they then handle independently.
verisimilitude: I could go into more detail, but I similarly have other things I could be doing, so it can wait.
shinohai: Reading #trilema logs yesterday got me thinking would be worthwhile to pick up where esthlos left off on his vtron (add diff function, etc) though now wonder if exercise in futility, since apparently this is nothing more than kindergarten Strafbataillon, and any discussion of subj merely fodder for asciilifeform to kek over with MP. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933448
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 14:00:11 asciilifeform: ( a surprisingly well-populated штрафбат . and asciilifeform makes an effort to read its log and reply 2-3x / daily )
asciilifeform: shinohai: picture, fella knocks on your door. 'behold, my great invention' you : 'but this is bicicle' him : 'i am well aware of bicycles!' you : 'this looks exactly like the bike i had when i was 11, but with odd protrusions' him : 'no!! it has radar-absorbing paint ! and can drop chaff against surface-to-air rockets' you : '...'
shinohai: heh
shinohai: Anyway, this morning's experiments show that esthlos V won't press trb correctly. Barfs on asciilifeform's numbered bitcoin vpatches, eg:
shinohai: Checking bitcoin-asciilifeform.3-turdmeister-alert-snip.vpatch against bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ..
shinohai: Renaming the patches allows press of sorts, but then only presses src/ folder. No makefile in sight.
asciilifeform: shinohai: afaik it was never upgraded to keccak
asciilifeform: shinohai: or are you speaking of the older patches
shinohai: http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-redux/ <<< this one
asciilifeform: which patches tho
shinohai: (using own keccack patchset from regrind earlier this year)
shinohai: afaik keccack trb not on btcbase
asciilifeform: a.
asciilifeform: then nfi ( i admit, have not tried this vtron 'in anger' )
asciilifeform: today i use diana_coman's ( which is actually a patch of my original v.py , to make use of phf's vdiff )
shinohai: Have up to this point used mod6's perl V, was merely curious as to whether anything useful was to be found in esthlos version.
shinohai: perl makes my head hurt.
asciilifeform: shinohai: ever think about writing your own vtron ?
shinohai: Started own lisp vtron, decided to take a look at a few other implementations to see if any ideas I could cobble.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i still even today recommend to people to start with reading mine, it is the shortest (if not 100% featureful)
shinohai: I actually did read yours and made horrid first attempt in pure bash just for shits and giggles.
asciilifeform: there's no reason you couldn't have a practical one in bash
asciilifeform: ( given as most of the work in all current vers is still gpg callout )
verisimilitude: So, no additional thoughts, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not atm. ( i personally don't like oop , and don't see its addition as useful feature ) but will read whole proggy when you post it.
verisimilitude: Alright, then.
verisimilitude: This design seems rather finalized, so I'll start implementing it soon. I'm aiming to have it finished by or before 2019-09-09. I'll return then to show you, asciilifeform.
PeterL: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/09/05/tyson-launches-alt-shrimp-made-plants-it-could-be-jumbo/ << the march toward "I can't believe it's not meat" continues
asciilifeform: lol
bvt: asciilifeform: answered; btw, can you release the source of the 'm' kernel (in two steps - 4.9-genesised to 3.16, 3.16 to 3.16-m)?
asciilifeform: bvt: i was gonna release it as patch, but got stuck on 'hm which to genesis'
bvt: this way, perhaps will learn if the approach with rolling back by doing vpatches is working
asciilifeform: bvt: will put it as old-fashioned patch in near future (hands pretty full atm sadly)
bvt: currently i'm sure that we don't want to have multiple genesises for 3.x-m, 4.4-rockchip, 2.x-amd64 - but it's hard to tell how it will work in practice.
bvt: ty
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 20d 8h 16m
bvt: hello. seems that dns/http of p.bvulpes.com fell off -> deedbot can't produce OTPs
asciilifeform: grr
asciilifeform: !qs "head hurt" perl f:shinohai
snsabot: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%26quot%3Bhead%20hurt%26quot%3B%20perl%20f%3Ashinohai&chan=asciilifeform][0 results for ""head hurt" perl f:shinohai" in #asciilifeform]
shinohai: hue
asciilifeform: this apparently not worx yet.
shinohai: i had same sad occur to my www, sdf had to be replaced
asciilifeform: shinohai: testing my bot, is all
asciilifeform: !qs "head hurt" perl f:shinohai
snsabot: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%26quot%3Bhead%20hurt%26quot%3B%20perl%20f%3Ashinohai&chan=asciilifeform][0 results for ""head hurt" perl f:shinohai" in #asciilifeform]
mats: am live, i don't have a greenarrays board
asciilifeform: a.
asciilifeform: must've been somebody else.
asciilifeform: whatcha up to these days, mats ?
lobbes: !e uptime
ericbot: lobbes: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 6m
lobbes: well unexpected disconnect, but new !e uptime works at least
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 25d 1h 4m
mats: boxing, diving, practice behind a pistol
mats: nothing very exciting
mats: made a trip to taipei recently, will be returning for a few months relatively soon
asciilifeform: mats: do you compete in tourneys ? or just a sometime thing ?
mats: just a sometime thing
asciilifeform: a.
mats: taipei is amazing, had a five course meal at xiang duck for two, ~45usd
mats: equiv in sf or boston would be 200+, with mildly above average service, gratuity, and surly waitstaff
asciilifeform: mats: i had very similar experience on erry single trip out of usa to anywhere.
mats: the staff were so attentive it actually made me a little uncomfortable, noticed every single little detail - timely refills, removing plates, listening carefully, not bringing the check to the table until requested, not making me wait
mats: shouldn't be remarkable but it is
verisimilitude: You asked me to tell you when I got around to documenting my Lemote Yeeloong hardware, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: Here that is: http://verisimilitudes.net/2019-09-09
verisimilitude: I mention as much in this document, but let me know if there are any details not covered you'd be interested in learning of.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: thx for posting, interesting. very rare machine. i've not found one being sold at any price, for many years.
PeterL: asciilifeform: I posted some sigs of ffa vpatches on my blog: http://peterl.xyz/2019/09/signatures-for-ffa/
asciilifeform: PeterL: ty ! will mirror these in the next ch
shinohai: is anyone publishing *raw znc* logs for chans ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: not afaik. currently the de-facto canonical format is phf-style, as seen in e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-raw/asciilifeform?istart=1000287&iend=1000288
asciilifeform: shinohai: lobbes wrote a [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/logotron/znc2tmsr_etc.kv.vpatch][znc-swallowing converter] to same
asciilifeform: shinohai: not errybody uses znc. ( my [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/][logotron] for instance does not , atm )
shinohai: it works as a lazy logotron, pretty easy to just add bot functions to a znc
asciilifeform: shinohai: it does. and imho the moar types of logotron written, the merrier.
asciilifeform: shinohai: if you know how to make one from znc -- don't hesitate to post.
shinohai: as soon as i sort out server difficulties will start publishing raw logz then.
shinohai: really nothing to speak of when making znc bot, just add an admin account with bot name, set it to log chans.
shinohai: then add commands in script lang of choice
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 27d 4h 38m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 28d 4h 30m
lobbes: welcome jfw. asciilifeform I believe this is the Jacob Welsh fella. Pointed him to yer castle.
jfw: indeed, ty lobbes.
jfw: I seem to be having trouble registering with deedbot, but in the mean time I'm http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc and [http://welshcomputing.com/jfw-key-trans-2019.asc][a bridge from a prior key]
asciilifeform: jfw: you will need to ask trinque , re deedbot .
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 29d 5h 12m
lobbes: that pizarro pipe is resilient. auctionbot also hosted from rockchip; can't remember last disconnect
asciilifeform: pretty great innit.
asciilifeform: lobbes: tryin' to figure out, incidentally, whythefuck didn't http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936242 echo
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:36:07 asciilifeform: ( the various 'why' of this -- explored in [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000616][this] #0 thrd & elsewhere )
asciilifeform: stumped atm
lobbes: that is odd..
lobbes: asciilifeform: I can't look too far into it atm, but I was able to reproduce the failing in my castle: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema-lobbes/2019-09-14
lobbes: looks like something to do with the "#0" portion?
asciilifeform: shouldn't make a diff, considering that the mechanism is :
asciilifeform: logref_re = re.compile(Base_URL + """log\/([^/]+)/([^/]+)#(\d+)""")
asciilifeform: ( and -- for ref in re.findall(logref_re, text): .... )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000616
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 18:53:47 asciilifeform: diana_coman: to add a few brush strokes to the picture of usa -- and perhaps already you knew -- 1) most folx get ~0 'vacation'. they nominally get '2 wks' but is reserved in practice for illness ; 2) are paid just enuff to stay alive (and locate themselves within vicinity of the mines) , 2-3 missed weeks of pay means destitution .
asciilifeform: echoes ^
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000616 #0
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: odd.
asciilifeform hates regexpism for a fucking reason
asciilifeform: [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-105.345-105.635][see also.]
asciilifeform bbl:meat
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 30d 11h 5m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 31d 4h 13m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 32d 0h 28m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 33d 0h 50m
asciilifeform: hey phf -- btcbase www fell down ??
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, some task i left running resulted in a heap exhaustion
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-19#1937305 <<< Interesting. I'm confused though, is MP wanting this *on top of* current logbot or as standalone?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-19 05:23:36 mircea_popescu: speaking of which, an' considering we're apparently stuck with a buncha [https://archive.is/0yRis][chris]es over here : any of your resident knights capable of registering a chan on ~any other network~ and writing the bridge code on top of extant bot already ?
asciilifeform: wb phf. and seems to work nao.
asciilifeform: shinohai: as i understand it's a feature req for variant of bot.
shinohai: I have a relay bot around somewhere, it's py2.7 stuff so no idea if still functional but I used it for relay between here and geekshed irc for well over year.
asciilifeform: shinohai: so clean it up, post.
shinohai: zncbot has taken up most of free time of late, I didn't exoect Summer to be so unseasonably warm here this late in September. Girls still want to drag me out here to lake or some odd place every day.
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 35d 1h 18m
asciilifeform: ohai dllud
asciilifeform: dllud: answr'd comment.
dllud: asciilifeform, damn quick!
asciilifeform: dllud: btw do you actually have a 'talos' ? lotsa folx seem to like to bring it up, but ~no one has
dllud: ahhah I fit in that category, I don't have one
asciilifeform: i've yet to run into anyone who'd admit to having bought it.
asciilifeform: ( or for that matter who could explain the appeal. ibm is ~at least~ as much a tentacle of the octopus as intel..)
dllud: I think I know just one person that bought it, by the nick of Jeremy_Rand_Talo, hangs around on some IRC channels.
dllud: Indeed. Although for Intel we are sure the ME is there and we need to feed it with blobs.
asciilifeform: who's to say what blobs are baked straight into the iron in the ibm box.
dllud: Yes. But I can argue the same about the old Opterons, can't I?
asciilifeform: but unlike e.g. the opteron -- given the cost, nobody's likely to ever pull ibm's apart.
dllud: Did someone do it for the Opterons?
asciilifeform: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-10-04#1552869][here] for instance is some dissection of the newer, plainly-boobytrapped opteron.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:41:09 kmalkki: note that RtmPubSigned.key[0x14..0x23] == AmdPubKey.bin[0x04..0x13]
asciilifeform: the older one, someone recently made progress in reversing the microcode (which loads w/out any cryptotrap), but i haven't the link handy
asciilifeform: the classic opterons included 0 oddball on-die periphs (nics, remote managers, etc) unlike the newer, and have published init code. so hard to picture of what would consist an effective mine in'em
asciilifeform: could, i suppose, contain a 'magic instruction' that goes from ring3 to 0, but all cpu are 'guilty until proven innocent' of containing this, and besides, process isolation on linux is rubbish anyway
dllud: Thanks for the links! Have you seen similar research for the POWER chips? Any idea of the peripherals baked into them?
asciilifeform: dllud: that's the thing, nobody seems to have any idea , given as they cost weight in gold
asciilifeform: vivisection required supply of reasonably-inexpensive burnable units, unless yer truly loaded
asciilifeform: ( and if yer loaded, for coupla 10 k $ you can have own cpu baked )
dllud: As for the passive cooling. Your requirements are just too high (8 SSDs, 2nd CPU, etc.), ahahha.
dllud: Damn, have you ever thought about doing it the other way around?
dllud: I.e. grabbing an old power transformer from the scrapyard, strip it's guts out, and machine some copper blocks to connect the CPUs to the transformer's outer layers?
asciilifeform: dllud: experimented with similar. problem with oil submersion is that no pc mobo is designed for it -- track impedance changes, and capacitors dissolve
asciilifeform: not to mention that yer fucked if you ever want to swap a part
asciilifeform: ... whereas if you don't submerge, but run heat pipes, box will die under load, all kinds of parts (e.g. voltage regulators) presume ~some~ airflow
dllud: ohhh, that's what I was thinking about, solid copper blocks as heat pipe connecting to the ex-transformer shell.
dllud: Didn't think about all those tiny components besides the CPU.
asciilifeform: dllud: consider [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mb1.png][this photo] .
dllud: If it was just the CPU I bet you could get a custom heat conductor for a decent price.
asciilifeform: notice, north/south bridge, and the voltage regs (right/center of pic) are quite warm.
dllud: CNC machines are pretty common nowadays. I've seen lots of SMEs with them. Shouldn't cost that much to have your custom copper thing machined.
asciilifeform: dllud: i have cnc mill right here.
dllud: ahahhaah ohh well, x-ray, CNC. Do you also happen to have a laser cutter? xD
asciilifeform: problem is that one can't easily cool the vregs / inductors / all the little pieces of shit, that way
asciilifeform: dllud: [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1401][laser cutter] (tho dun see what good it does for this problem)
dllud: Taking that into account, I wonder how those guys from Compulab get away with it.
dllud: https://fit-iot.com/web/
dllud: Hmm.. it has "some" airflow.
asciilifeform: i've yet to see 1 of those w/out any air holes, aha
dllud: It doesn't seem to be sealed.
dllud: Yup, this one isn't.
asciilifeform: and, again, much easier when everything is soldered down, single cpu, et
asciilifeform: c
asciilifeform: sorta academic from my pov, tho, i won't be buying intel cpu (and esp. not intel nics)
dllud: asciilifeform, but do those tiny holes pose any problem to you? I bet it takes years before they accumulate too much dust.
asciilifeform: well, say i want radio-shielded box.
dllud: ahhh hahha, better start small then. I bet that finding a way to get rid of the vacuum cleaner you have nowadays (i.e. fans) would be a good first step. Then onto the sealed thing.
asciilifeform: or, say, to run it in a packed rack, with buncha hot boxen.
asciilifeform: i noticed that all sorts of 'consumer' rubbish in fact overheats if placed in a reasonably warm confined space, rather than ideal room temperature desk.
dllud: yup, it does. Tried that while fitting stuff into a small video/audio rack.
asciilifeform: at any rate, currently 'workstation' to me means at least 2 pre-2013 opterons. and swappable nics , as cards. and expandable ecc ram.
asciilifeform: so, not much interest in the various bricks. tho i've used, in various applications, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=rockchip&chan=trilema][small single-board arms] and the like.
asciilifeform: they simply aint workstation replacements.
dllud: Yup. And now I can see why you are into a dead end about the cooling. But couldn't you ditch the "radio shielded" requirement, and build a box with some holes that give you enough airflow for the voltage regulator, plus heatpipes for CPU, GPU (and RAM?)
asciilifeform: hypothetically, a pc mobo designed for classic opterons, w/ a heavy aluminum ground layer , designed to be sat down on top of a 1x1metre hedgehog, would do the job. but of course dun exist presently.
asciilifeform: dllud: the 'heatpipes for x,y,z, some airflow' box is actually pictured in the article we're discussing.
asciilifeform: i was speaking of actual solution.
asciilifeform: the 'here's how to solve your problem, why dontcha give up and settle for half' is uninteresting , imho
dllud: hahah, indeed, got me
dllud: BTW, since I am wasting your time, I'll take the chance to ask about this: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433
dllud: Did you meanwhile found any better candidate for a laptop?
asciilifeform: what about it ?
asciilifeform: dllud: nope.
asciilifeform: not found.
dllud: Bahh :(, sad. But that's the answer I was expecting.
asciilifeform: someone earlier linked to a self-assemble-kit arm lappy, but turned out to be blob-booting chinese thing.
asciilifeform: (and with rubbish lcd.)
asciilifeform: state of the lappy market, even in 'price no object' category, is pretty sad these days -- keyboards that wouldn't look out of place in a toy store, etc (not even to mention intelism)
asciilifeform: i'd happily buy a lappy that consists of ips lcd + ice40 fpga + some dram sockets. but, of course, no one makes.
asciilifeform: would even buy a 'rockchip' lappy, if could be had w/out any googlisms in it.
dllud: asciilifeform, Well, there are some attempts. Like this: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform
dllud: Basically the same SoC and in the Purism Librem phones.
asciilifeform: ugh brick
dllud: But still a promise. Not something you can buy.
asciilifeform: 1990s want their chassis back
asciilifeform: imho '3d printed' plastics feel like shit to the touch, btw
asciilifeform: proper lappy oughta be milled, or at least stamped, aluminums
dllud: yup, good for prototyping and nothing else. Then make a mould out of it and inject with proper plastic.
asciilifeform: or even that
asciilifeform: the products of starvation-budget 'kickstarters' etc tend to be horrifying from simple mechanical pov
dllud: Yup, you will be in for a sad ride in the next few years. The laptops that may come out without Fritz chips will be those kinds of community projects with bulky shitty chassis.
asciilifeform: if they simply made e.g. replacement mobo for c101pa chassis/screen -- would be potentially interesting.
asciilifeform: could cost even less than the clunker in the linked www.
asciilifeform: there's nothing wrong with the c101pa's chassis/screen, why not use it.
dllud: There is stuff like that for Thinkpad chassis: http://www.cnmod.cn/x210/
dllud: albeit with Intel Inside.
asciilifeform: imho x86 in lappy is lunacy to begin with. why the fuck put 100 watt clothes iron in lappy when arm etc. exist.
asciilifeform: e.g. [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295][rk3328] draws <3watt (entire machine) .
asciilifeform bbl.
dllud: Because people like me hop too frequently from place to place during the work day to ever consider buying a desktop. A laptop with okish performance is a blessing. You can compile lots of stuff in situ, and only leave the really heavy duty jobs for your server (whenever you can sit in a place a good enough/cheap enough internet connection).
dllud: With an ARM-based laptop I would need an always on, low latency, large bandwidth connection. That's something that does not exist yet. (Perhaps 5G or Starlink?)
asciilifeform: dllud: the rk3328 actually performs very (by my standards) decently. (e.g. gcc compiles at roughly 1/2 the speed of my desktop)
asciilifeform: the lack of expandable ram is annoying tho
asciilifeform: if it were available in a usable laptop form factor, i'd buy it (already have a proper linux port for it, etc)
asciilifeform: ( 'usable' here means, something ~other~ than 3kg of 'glue gun' printed plastic w/ camcorder batteries rattling around inside )
dllud: asciilifeform, what's the specific processor on your desktop? Those numbers are tantalizing.
asciilifeform: 2393SE
dllud: asciilifeform, do you have two of them?
dllud: I was looking at some synthetic benchmarks and the gap is bigger than 1/2 the speed.
dllud: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/14186745
dllud: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/2353732
dllud: They point to 1/3 the speed for single threaded performance.
dllud: But the next SoC from RockChip is much closer: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/14208552
dllud: If, as it appears, that these benchmarks exacerbate the difference when compared to the real task of compiling stuff, then this RK3399 should be good enough for a laptop.
dllud: It seems to have the same level of support in mainline Linux as the RK3328: http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_Status_Matrix
dllud: Hmm… interesting, I was quite outdated about this.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-21#1000448 << aha
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-21 00:41:33 dllud: asciilifeform, do you have two of them?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-21#1000449 << usually i find actual programs that i work with every day, to be more interesting measures than e.g. 'dhrystone'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-21 00:41:34 dllud: I was looking at some synthetic benchmarks and the gap is bigger than 1/2 the speed.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-21#1000455 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-21 00:41:40 dllud: It seems to have the same level of support in mainline Linux as the RK3328: http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_Status_Matrix
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-21#1000454 << rk3399 is slightly faster but considerably more expensive ( and largely on account of the -- few -- boards it is available on, having questionable bells and whistles, e.g. soldered-on wifi )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-21 00:41:39 dllud: If, as it appears, that these benchmarks exacerbate the difference when compared to the real task of compiling stuff, then this RK3399 should be good enough for a laptop.
asciilifeform: the c101pa fwiw had the rk3399.
asciilifeform: afaik to this day no one offers a rk (either type) board w/ socketed ram or pcie -- which would make it potentially 'workstationable'
dllud: Bummer, that was gonna be my next question. And it seems they all have at most 4 GB RAM chips.
asciilifeform: afaik no one sells an arm of any description with >4
asciilifeform: with possible exception of one chinese outfit, which offered one-offs at ludicrous golden toilet 4fig prices, that i won't even bother to try and dig up link to again
dllud: yeah, nevermind
asciilifeform: my main gripe re the rk3328 board, wasn't even the 4g ram cap, but lack of sata ( or any means, aside from the cpu-taxing usb3 , to connect same )
asciilifeform: i use'em as servers ( currently building yet another cluster ) and this is main practical limit on performance.
dllud: ahahah exactly! The existence of a SATA port is the reason why I keep using SBCs with the AllWinner A20.
dllud: That's why, a few minutes ago this article got me interested: http://linuxgizmos.com/rk3399-based-odroid-n1-sbc-doubles-up-on-sata-iii/
asciilifeform: from my pov, those may as well be intels, 100% blob boot
asciilifeform: ( the 'allwinner' that is )
dllud: But it seems that Hardkernel discontinued this product.
asciilifeform: right, they seem to be out of print
dllud: The replacement (ODROID-N2) doesn't have SATA ports.
dllud: asciilifeform, do those RKs boot without any proprietary blob?
dllud: As for the AllWinners, are you referring to this: https://github.com/qemu/u-boot/blob/master/board/sunxi/README.sunxi64#L155 ?
asciilifeform: dllud: 33xx aha
asciilifeform: what i haven't even tried, is the video output in 3328. last i knew, wasn't fully functional without shitware.
asciilifeform: fortunately my application doesnt use display.
dllud: > Hardkernel announced it was shelving the board due to sourcing problems
dllud: http://linuxgizmos.com/odroid-n2-sbc-has-hexa-core-amlogic-s922x-and-63-to-79-price/
dllud: Hm… All RK3399 getting used on Chromebooks? Does Rockchip still produce them?
dllud: Any idea of Amlogic blobiness? https://libre.computer/ sells a few boards with those SoCs.
asciilifeform: ugh, no usb3 or sata or gb nic
asciilifeform: wtf is the use of these
asciilifeform: re amlogic -- no idea. last i knew rk was the only reasonably hygienic arm64; it is possible that this has changed.
asciilifeform: i find board where impossible to attach fast storage, to be 100% useless tho.
dllud: Yup, same for me. The only interesting board with an Amlogic SoC seems to be the ODROID-N2 (Amlogic SOC).
dllud: I am wondering if it can boot without blobs. At least it has plenty of USB3 ports.
dllud: But I do hate USB-SATA converters. On my experience they always underperform and disconnect for no reason and such.
dllud: Nothing like native SATA.
dllud: asciilifeform, it seems that after all you can boot AllWinner without blobs: https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/Pinephone#fn7
dllud: I am trying to track down the code.
dllud: Source of that info was MoeIcenowy.
shinohai: Did you read about this faux phuctorism yesterday asciilifeform? http://archive.is/Qgxck
shinohai: Pretty lulzy.
asciilifeform: looks pretty tedious
BingoBoingo: Breaking undersized keys is not news
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: apparently there's a 'craig wright' type in that story, complete with selling magick elixirs etc. still pretty snoar.
BingoBoingo: Kinda why the things hasn't been determined news. Herp derp gonna break keys of a size demonstrated breakable more than a decade ago pls to buy my Quantum Copywriting
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 37d 2h 6m
whaack: asciilifeform: following from http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003544 I am considering submitting to training under diana_coman, but before I pulled the trigger I thought I should stop here and ask if you feel it would be wiser for me to submit to training under you. Is this something you are interested in, and if so what would be required of me for you to take me?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 10:51:45 diana_coman: whaack: so ask them directly, why not ask? fwiw yes, I would send you to someone else if I think it's a better fit but I don't know if "transfer" is the word for it; for one thing, you're not a package to just transfer; for the other, you can't and shouldn't eschew choice; see http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/fog-of-war/#comment-43
asciilifeform: whaack: i can't answer this w/out knowing ~something~ about your interests
whaack: asciilifeform: Okay, I think that itself deserves a blog post. The short answer is: programming (i have enjoyed going through SICP quite a bit, although its on hold, I want to learn how to program faster to eat through lots of saltmine work quickly), cryptography (i want to have trb "fit in head"), learning 2nd language (Spanish) , playing the guitar
asciilifeform: whaack: to learn how to work fast and 'with system', imho you oughta ask to study under diana_coman
asciilifeform: languages -- best learned by living with people who know'em
asciilifeform: cryptography -- eat the ffa series; ( diana_coman btw is an escaped mathematician and has eaten the whole thing , can prolly answer q's re subj as well as asciilifeform can)
asciilifeform: music -- afaik we dun have a master of music yet.
asciilifeform: whaack: so far loox to me like diana_coman is best fit for you to study under. see whether will agree. but yer welcome to ask q's here as you do homeworks , i will try to answer'em as time permits.
asciilifeform: whaack: i still recommend to write that blog post -- it does wonders for putting contents of your head in order
whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000517 << ty for the advice re different topics and ack.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 12:16:23 asciilifeform: whaack: i still recommend to write that blog post -- it does wonders for putting contents of your head in order
asciilifeform: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-23#1937694][in other noose] .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 18:34:36 asciilifeform: in other noose, 'recent comments' box added to asciilifeform's www. ( phplogy exercise; but generally gaping hole, imho; nao filled. )
mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932702 << this is an interesting narrative i've never heard, who are the elements within the party that you think are even more hardline than xi?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 15:35:09 asciilifeform: ( apropos of subj -- it is interesting to consider why 'tiananmen wank' is a thing in cn. the not-so-seekrit answer is that open discussion of subj would indeed cost the crowned heads their necks -- but ~not~ for 'ohnoez, killing protesters' -- but instead ~for having left any alive~. their 'grievances' included e.g. 'how dare pekin permit sons of peasants to enter university' . )
mats: unrelatedly, i think an important detail that often goes unmentioned in reporting, is that until very recently the chinese diaspora has been overwhelmingly canto
mats: and news from #b-otc, apparently https://bitvps.com walks the earth again
asciilifeform: mats: next thing we know, mtgox also returns . imho not very interesting.
asciilifeform: i'd have imagined that old, thoroughly-burned brands will not reappear as honeypots, but then again i perhaps underestimate the sheer depth of idiocy of the homo-redditus target clientele.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-24#1000522 << the ~old~, vanished party, pre-revision/cancellation of mao, was the idea.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 05:42:45 mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932702 << this is an interesting narrative i've never heard, who are the elements within the party that you think are even more hardline than xi?
asciilifeform: mats: i unfortunately do not know cn, and ~errything i know on the subj consists of what has been translated to ru ( the english folx are worse than no source at all, they're entirely echo chamber of organized disinfo ) , so asciilifeform cannot be considered any kind of authority on the subj.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-24#1000524 << i never knew this, and would like to see mats expand on it, if has time.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 05:44:04 mats: unrelatedly, i think an important detail that often goes unmentioned in reporting, is that until very recently the chinese diaspora has been overwhelmingly canto
lobbes would read a mats blog series on the subj. fwiw
asciilifeform also would read
asciilifeform: mats: do you have a working www ?
asciilifeform: wb phf btw. phf, any chance of [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926774][logger genesis] ? or [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926878][patch intake hopper] for the patch viewer ? would be a+++ useful.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:02 phf: asciilifeform: i'll genesis you the logger in the next two weeks. i'd rather you not waste time on it though. the design predates castles, so making it multichannel might be excessive amount of work. it's idiosyncratic, a product of the conversations from four years ago. your current approach seems a lot more solid.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 13:02:45 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926776 << i can't speak for erryone, but, in case wasn't clear, asciilifeform spends HOUR+ (and sometimes several h) erry single day of the week reading coad at btcbase/patches ! it is quite essential tool , fully 20-30% boost of brain to asciilifeform . that being said, would be imho a++ if you found how to make it eat patches/sigs through a www-based hop
lobbes: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=h2N4
lobbes: ^^ not urgent.
asciilifeform: lobbes: possib. lemme know shortly before.
lobbes: asciilifeform: kk
mats: its the result of a thousand years of sporadic emigration waves from guangdong and the port in guangzhou
mats: tens of millions of overseas chinese were glued to tv screens during in june 1989, and not just hong kongers and taiwanese
mats: during june*
mats: the party has been busy consolidating official usage of mandarin, and today in hk you are way more likely to communicate or get service if you use it first instead of mandarin, at least that was my experience there earlier this year
mats: although the locals love it when you do use canto
mats: somewhat unrelatedly, my grandmother still occasionally takes the bus in santa clara and she tells me that usually nobody speaks english, and touted this as 'well trump sucks but hes not totally wrong ...'
mats: i'm not an authority on the subject either, just another overseas chinese american , but i did happen to grow up speaking a bit of canto and mandarin at home
mats: some of my people were in hk and others left nanjing with the kmt, in 1949
mats: nobody learns to r/w in traditional chinese anymore, except some rare holdouts in tw i heard about but didn't meet, i expect cantonese is on its way out and will be irrelevant in 100 years
mats: but in the present day its still common, i have bumped into random vietnamese, mexican, thai people that know canto for whatever reason
mats: sorry, use it first instead of canto*
asciilifeform: mats: interesting
asciilifeform: mats: congrats of getting outta usa, btw.
mats: history is bittersweet for people my grandparents age, first having the japs force them from their lands, then communists forcing them from their country after having starved and fought to push out the japs, then settling in a white man's country
mats: jp as little brother in the 21st century relationship with cn hardly salves the wound, my grandmother still adamantly refuses to go to jp restaurants or own anything made there
mats: i admit tokyo is really nice, very clean and hygienic, i don't know what it is about the humidity and construction materials used in taipei and hk but it makes all the buildings look fucking run down
mats: i'm back in usa, haven't settled outside yet. need a job in tw/hk to do that
mats: when i have something concrete to report it'll go into #t
asciilifeform: neato mats .
shinohai: Oh hai asciilifeform, good afternoon. Back online after brief modem fiasco, reading logs, etc.
asciilifeform: wb shinohai
shinohai: Thx. Did I miss anything exciting?
asciilifeform: shinohai: is what logotron is for !
shinohai: Katolina is practicing her Enlish, having her read it aloud to me now xD
shinohai: (so I don't have to just yet, as am multitasking)
PeterL: asciilifeform: http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch19/ line 101 you could move the declare block above the begin, save one nesting level (kinda cosmetic, so I don't know if you want to change it?)
PeterL: hmm, link does not have file name in it. I am talking about fz_barr.adb
bvt: asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938437 - iirc those are a pair of retired ex-ibm cpu designers. they posted to comp.arch usenet from time to time.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 14:41:01 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in [https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016b.html][misc. strange from the lint traps] .
asciilifeform: !q version
snsabot: asciilifeform: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime
asciilifeform: !q version
snsabot: I am bot version 596907.
asciilifeform: see [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938791][here] re what's new.
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-09-27 asciilifeform: !q seen mp_en_viaje
bvt: asciilifeform: i'm not expert wwwist and logotronist, so will drop a question here: will something like http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26?1931343 work? if day mismatches the expected, can redirect to log/chan/day or log/chan/correct-day?id ; the drawback is that scrolling to the selected post would need to be done with js
asciilifeform: bvt: you gotta have the anchor, or can't insta-scroll to the line !
asciilifeform: and js is perma-fatwa'd.
asciilifeform: there shall be no js in my logger.

2019-8-31 | 2019-10-1