Logs for #asciilifeform

Go to: #trilema #pizarro #asciilifeform #trilema-mod6 #chainstate #eulora

2019-7-31 | 2019-9-1

verisimilitude: Some of you may find this interesting.
verisimilitude: I've written an Ada library I'm actually pleased with; you may find it here:
verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/2019-07-27
verisimilitude: This is a simple and high-level interface to OpenBSD's pledge.
verisimilitude: I'll likely change this to a ``OpenBSD'' later package by including unveil as well.
verisimilitude: That is, an ``OpenBSD'' package later.
BingoBoingo: verisimilitude: Where did you find an ADA that works on OpenBSD?
verisimilitude: I used pkg_add.
BingoBoingo: I guess things changed since 5.7
verisimilitude: I'm currently using the latest, 6.5, but I also had GNAT on 6.3.
asciilifeform: 'pledge' mechanism is pretty interesting. afaik there's no equiv. on linux of yet, tho.
verisimilitude: It's a more general, cooperative mechanism, so it's certainly interesting compared to the other options.
lobbes: I'm currently running a scrape of btcbase using the method outlined in http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/snapshot_signed.txt. Once complete I will compare, sign, and upload
lobbes: (posted a comment to the thread on Trilema, but realized I haven't commented there from this new apartment; currently hanging in teh modqueue)
asciilifeform: ty lobbes
asciilifeform: lobbes: lemme know if you find any oddities.
asciilifeform: lobbes: if indeed it comes out same bitwise (and really oughta) you can simply sign the original sum.
asciilifeform: lobbes: the moar important thing is to compare to logs kept ~elsewhere~ (e.g. people's bouncers)
asciilifeform: the timestamps i expect will vary by up to coupla sec, but the ~text~ oughta match
lobbes: asciilifeform: roger that. I'll do a compare vs my own logs next and see if there is any noticeable weird
lobbes: hmm odd, the resulting sha512 I got differed. To be sure I wasn't just fucking up the shasum process, I downloaded your tarball and applied a 'shasum -a 512' on it, but the result indeed came out to what you had in the signed snapshot. I'll make a small blog post shortly with details
asciilifeform: lobbes: plox to find where differs.
lobbes: I'll include a diff with it
asciilifeform: ty
asciilifeform: an' see if result of 2 wgets on your end likewise differs.
lobbes: ah good point. I'll try that too
asciilifeform: i was thinking i oughta have rate-limited the snarf, possibly a query timed out somewhere on phf's end
lobbes: yeah, I suspect that may be the culprit. I think I may have spotted a few time-outs, but neglected to snarf in a screen session, so no logs of the run. On second run I'll both rate limit and do it in screen with proper logging
asciilifeform: read wget man, see how to redir eggogs to file
lobbes: also good point. Will do just that
asciilifeform: atm i have a viewer mostly working. tomorrow will glue together search an' backlinks
asciilifeform bbl:meat
lobbes: for reference: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/btcbaseorg-snarf-first-run/
lobbes: going to set the second-run in motion then off to bed
lobbes: meat chores tomorrow during day, then back at it at night. bbl
asciilifeform: lobbes: comment in modqueue
shinohai: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-7-25#475020 <<< Haven't had time to experiment in last week, girls are determined to soak every last ray of Summer sun up and have kept me rather busy.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2019-07-28 19:20 asciilifeform: bvt , shinohai , et al : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3440
shinohai: Will have a look after un cafecito.
shinohai: And oh hey, adlai is in here thanx for posting https://github.com/adlai/bip0032sbcl on your Shithub, is invaluable tool for storing shitcoins until such a time I can move them to an exchange.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log << sneak preview (it aint logging anyone yet, still gotta plug in backend.) all kinds important knobs (search pagination, 'from:', etc) missing.
asciilifeform: e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-01 displays
shinohai: Pretty neat, basic search worx
asciilifeform bbl:meat
asciilifeform: shinohai et al : feel free to experiment, i;ma leave it up for nao
diana_coman: looks quite good from here, asciilifeform
lobbes: asciilifeform: I got a 500 error when searching for '5' >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=5&chan=trilema
lobbes: most integers seem to choke it. Though 'strings' seem to be fine
lobbes: oddly enough, having a 'combo' of num+string seems to work >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=5+test&chan=trilema
lobbes: pretty cool tho
asciilifeform: lobbes: fixed.
asciilifeform: there's still much to do, e.g. in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=2014&chan=trilema the highlighter mutilates links
asciilifeform: will have to be rewritten so it leaves'em alone, i.e. 10x moar complicated mechanism
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/irL8k/?raw=true << current snapshot.
asciilifeform: pertinent item is 'format_logline' .
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NNCo0/?raw=true << w/fix where lines ordered correctly (by index) rather than time (apparently phf's timestamps were all over the place)
asciilifeform: there is also potential fundamental problem, my schema indexes all lines seen (across all chans) rather than by chan
asciilifeform: left mp a comment, asked if he has notion re canonical internal form.
asciilifeform: thinking about it, my current schema's no good. how the fuck do you sync 2 loggers if they're sitting in diff chans and can't agree re numeration.
asciilifeform: ( in diff. but intersecting sets of chans, that is )
phf: hello, i had a sepsis as a result of misdiagnosed (belarus is a shithole) complications from the medical condition mp mentioned
phf: girl came to take me back to moscow, i had an emergency surgery and was was laid out under IV for the past two weeks
asciilifeform: ohai phf , wb to the world of the living !
phf: it's curious that the bot chose that particular time to start consistently timing out to freenode after a year+ of not needing any intervention
phf: reading commentary on my disappearance has not been a particularly pleasant activity, and since i've been presumed framedraggered and have neither energy nor desire to defend myself, i will presently go back to recovering
phf: to satisfy diana_coman's request i will explicitly say that i'm not cut out to be a lord of the republic, and i'll be stepping down once i get a hold of my key
diana_coman: welcome back phf !
asciilifeform: phf yer welcome in asciilifeform's castle any day of the week.
diana_coman: phf: does "stepping down" mean "moving on to being a knight" or does it mean "vanishing" ?
diana_coman: and fwiw I'd be more than glad to have you around in #ossasepia any time too, there's plenty you can teach that I don't know.
phf: ty to both of you
asciilifeform: phf: plz consider publishing your log system (or at least gpg to asciilifeform , who had to stop all work and set to attempt to reverse-engineer it as 'black box' from html barf... )
asciilifeform: phf: ftr i did not presume you had 'framedraggered', but instead supposed that phf was run over by truck or similar.
asciilifeform: the truck is always there, it is part of the reason why asciilifeform likes to publish drafts, and even in-house items like phuctor, i gave to mp a copy of, for when.
phf: diana_coman: tbh, i haven't thought it through that far. i've just realized that i already knew i was sick when i chose to travel to belarus, but i made a life threatening decision anyway. so i kind of want to evaluate my relationship with the republic
BingoBoingo: phf: Good to hear you survived
diana_coman: phf: sounds extremely tough; realise though that I had no idea whatsoever (and while I know others closer knew more, it seems from the public discussions that only a bit more); so may I suggest to take as much time as it's needed but also do the evaluation more publicly/engaged with the rest? I'm not even sure what/how you read the commentary for instance that it was such unpleasant read.
asciilifeform: can't speak for e.g. mp, but asciilifeform aint about to consider a fella who fell ill as a deserter
asciilifeform brb:tea
shinohai: Hi diana_coman ... how go the Eulora upgrades?
diana_coman: shinohai: the are updates on my blog, the "notes on eulora graphics"
shinohai: Neat, will read. Thank God it's raining today so quiet evening at home reading on horizon.
asciilifeform back
phf: diana_coman: it's not that the comments were particularly unpleasant, it's that they were there at all, that the conclusion was not "omg phf is dead" but more "phf bailed like the rest of these losers and here's all the reasons why". it's like every time something happens to me, i have to come back and prove that i'm not, in ascii parlance, a "traitor".
phf: but the stepping down is not related to comments. i've reflected on the recent shake up where everyone scrambled to write "how i'm going to spend next month" blog posts, and realized that perhaps for a year now my main motivating factor for the participation in the republic was fear of public shaming
phf: what we do here is hard work, which in my case was motivated by "we band of brothers" sentiment, but i don't feel that camaraderie anymore, because i expect to be turned on viciously at any infraction
phf: at some point i experienced the approach as educational and cathartic, but recently it started to feel simply abusive
phf: after almost duying for nebulous reasons, i gotta ask myself the fuck i'm doing all this
asciilifeform: phf: i cannot speak for others, but asciilifeform 'does it' because found that critical audience beats 9000x over 'write into desk for archaeologists'
phf: "ascii_field: must say, it is moar phun now, with phriends."
asciilifeform: as for mp, he performs (gratis!) important function -- among other things, lymphocyte. if he were to 'go soft', very quickly brigade would resemble e.g. openbsd.
asciilifeform: fwiw i suspect that at some pt he'll flunk the whole class as unteachable. but asciilifeform would like to make constructive use of the time until then.
diana_coman: phf: the conclusion and core of the problem was "can't tell"; you seem extremely introverted (and you know, this all sounds SO familiar to me because I can still recall a younger-me processing several situations precisely in those terms you said above) but it can't work like this without more interaction
diana_coman: fwiw I think everyone essentially thought and said phf-friend, but WHAT happened to him?? and as time goes by and no sort of news comes through any channels, the quicker the bits and pieces are picked up the best, at the very least; (tbh I'd be actually quite relieved if I knew for sure that all the pieces *were* indeed picked up that quickly if I died tomorrow)
phf: i honestly don't get the first bit about "can't tell"
phf: eh, the comments on the #trilema goes dark article are in somewhat different terms and tone
asciilifeform: phf: as i understand, your ailment wasn't a sudden thing, neh, but contracted long ago ?
phf: nah, week and a half worth of development
asciilifeform: a
phf: just a totally freak coincidence of events where i went from being totally normal to being "glad you made it here today, because tomorrow you would've passed out with general organ failure"
asciilifeform: given how little saw of phf in past yr, i assumed long disease or similar misfortune
asciilifeform: but diana_coman's pt, i think, is why had to assume ?
phf: nah, before that i was dealing with grandma, who since passed away, so just a totally unrelated random thing :)
asciilifeform: this in log, i recall
asciilifeform: e.g. asciilifeform at 1 time was trapped in a salt mine hell which left no health for constructive work. but did not make of it a secret
asciilifeform: why not tell people.
phf: wait, which part? i'm confused about the direction of this thread
asciilifeform: or at the very least leave a working copy of system for folks to maintain. or so much as reset button..
phf: initially i didn't think grandma thing would be that hard, but it was dragged out of me pretty fast, februarysh? the whole "phf's escape is not a real escape"
phf: the recent situation was rapid, basically a "hit by a bus" situation
asciilifeform: phf: i realize it's painful subj, but imho worth effort to chronicle the misadventures
phf: except without actual death
asciilifeform: fwiw phf is still many steps ahead of asciilifeform , who made no escape at all yet
diana_coman: phf: look, to use an example a bit less raw: I had no idea whatsoever that you ever found the experience here educational and cathartic, it's the very first time I hear it and moreover I *wouldn't have guessed*
diana_coman: I had an inkling that you find it worthwhile to some degree that seemed increasingly dwindling given the less and less communication *of any sort* coming from you
diana_coman: but there's a huge gap between "somewhat worthwhile" and "cathartic"
diana_coman: you can of course say that I "should have known" you are very serious and dedicated and therefore only something close to catastrophic can actually be the root cause of this but ....how/where from exactly would I actually *know* this?
phf: diana_coman: well, i have very little idea what motivates other people besides asciilifeform who talks a lot about everything, so i wouldn't think i'm an exception in this
asciilifeform: when you do not write, people are left to assume. mp assumed that 'lost steam'. asciilifeform assumed 'contracted naggumitis and died', went to try and rebuild phf's apparatus, on which was heavily relying . others assumed devil knows what.
diana_coman: understand that I may even *want* it to be true but if I start going by what I wish were true...
phf: diana_coman: like, i believe you're working on eulora for money, maybe? that's about as much as i understand of your motivations
diana_coman: phf: there is http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/30/my-first-2-years-as-cto-for-minigame/ for instance, you know?
diana_coman: phf: is it also that you have no idea *what* people are doing? motivations is one step further but it's the thing you seem to want people to assume they know
diana_coman: phf: and more recently this for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-01#1921232
phf: i missed the blog post and i stand corrected, but the log link i saw
phf: i'm not sure why there's a need to escalate, i read the logs, i have pretty good idea what everyone's working on
diana_coman: phf: what is "escalate" there?
phf: the "no idea what people are doing"
diana_coman: I was honestly asking so that I understand where you position yourself; there was no deeper implication to it.
phf: ah ok
phf: i don't expect people to understand my motivations, i only verbalized my motivations to explain why the disappeared
phf: nor to clarify do i find the comments after my disappearance unfounded. i anticipated the direction they would go, and it was a kind of confirmation to find them that way. sort of like anticipating the punishment
diana_coman: the thing is I couldn't quite tell what phf was doing although I follow the log and your blog too; there were a few promises that didn't materialise and a lot of silence
asciilifeform: phf: fwiw i'd be last one to throw stone at phf for 'he doesn't write', my own life in saeculum is entirely un-mp-esque and depressing enuff to not fill with desire to write about it. but i like to think that if i went into 'log in every third sunday' mode, would tell people why, and leave copies of unfinisheds to somebody
phf: diana_coman: that's a different issue though, i've been delivering less and less, my only claims are btcbase and vtools (later incomplete), you're saying that i wasn't saying much, but i was also not doing much. there was a lot less questions of how quite phf is while i was doing, hmm.
asciilifeform: phf: ftr i find the www vtron extremely valuable. prior to it i spent good chunk of late 2015 trying to make similar, and was unable
phf: diana_coman: the two are at odds: i'm not participating in the republic as much as would make me a proper lord and everyone can see that, but my realization is that i have no idea why participate except that i'm going to be called mean names
asciilifeform: and of course the ada vdiff, erryone is now using, it is the only working one
diana_coman: phf: to some extent doing stands for saying, you know? i.e. one sees what the man is doing
diana_coman: hence, the "lot less questions"
phf: oh i can see the relationship, hence i brought it up. obviously when i was doing my sparse communications were "carefully though out", where's now they are just introversive :p
diana_coman: phf: I don't think anyone called you names for *participating*, quite on the contrary; if you find however that all of a sudden the whole adventure and the underlying principles are not worth you being involved...
phf: diana_coman: what? part of participating is going on the floor for infractions on the regular basis. the mishandling of the bolix loot for which i was almost drummed out
diana_coman: unfortunately I really got to go now afk as I've kept people around here waiting and jumping about; fwiw I hope phf will find it's worth to stick around on any level that really works for him
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform's whatever organ responds to 'called names' atrophied some time in primary school. for so long as mp et al want to build constructive things together with me, i'm game, dun matter by what names called
phf: diana_coman: i appreciate the conversation
phf: asciilifeform: i don't really believe that's the case, the last couple of times your flaws came up, you didn't seem particularly blase about it
asciilifeform: i for one consider phf to be top technical contributor and would much like to see him stay.
asciilifeform: phf: i can muster good quality 'emo' for day or so
phf: i just find myself short of good quality emos even for a day recently, but the trilema wheel keeps turning whether i want it or not
asciilifeform: phf: i find that it is much easier to soldier on when there is feeling that the work actually adds up to something.
asciilifeform: this was hard to come by when was writing into desk for 7yrs.
asciilifeform: ( and repeatedly hitting technological walls )
phf: i don't feel like my work adds up to something as it stands, there's like an infinite number of moving targets, x11, emacs, kernel, meanwhile there's a massive backlog of projects never complete
shinohai: Tho no longer very welcome around these parts myself, I have appreciated phf's logger and vtools, immensely valuable items.
asciilifeform: at one time i spent what little energy had after salt mine, on ill-conceived attempts to escape ('let's sell robot to replace grad student in lab' etc). today content, if can use the word, simply to help make knives with which smart people might kill the stupid.
phf: and how many hackers is there available, me you and trinque? every new person that walks in we test like in the seven samurai, by hitting them with a stick on the head, and see if they will deflect. none do
asciilifeform: phf: we have, and i dun think this is a secret, a dire shortage of ~every~ kind of hand. we haven't even one doctor, or even artist, or..etc
asciilifeform: we only have 1 BingoBoingo , there is no replacement
asciilifeform: and 1 mp ...
phf: i think a doctor or an artist needs different treatment than "hey, you, join us or we'll rape your daughters", particularly when you're not actually holding the said daughter at gun point
asciilifeform: imho moar accurate summary would be 'join us or your conscience will gnaw'
asciilifeform: plus '..and when the idiots eat you, as they always eventually do, will have no one but self to blame for why there was no one to prevent it'
phf: that is a subtle point, which is not well communicated. i have presented that point to people in person, the grand vision of better future, but when confronted with the actual logs or trilema they run away
asciilifeform: fwiw same experience of asciilifeform
phf: granted sometimes with "dude, i have a real job, i can't be on record saying shit like that", but often because they find the whole thing so unacceptable they don't want to go into details
asciilifeform: e.g. pet :'why did you take kilogram pile of paper to beach' 'must.. maybe in peacetime can go without papers'
asciilifeform: ftr i dun expect to personally live to 'peacetime'. but fwiw my head doesn't require such an expectation, to work.
asciilifeform grew up on mythology of folx who knew they would not live to see peacetime, but did Right Thing anyhow 
phf: oh i'm familiar with that mythology, the few remaining products of it are living off their last years in dirty moscow apts
asciilifeform: phf: oddly enuff i've yet to witness physically real bite of this traditional phobia, where 'it wouldn't do, real job!1'. generally no one can be arsed to decipher 200MB of ??? , at least in usa there is strong 'don't ask, don't tell' culture in salt mine
phf: eh, true, i agree fear of logs exposure is overblown
phf: hence i said "granted" to imply that it's the least legitimate reason
mats: mike c seems to be doing just fine
mats: sorry to butt in
asciilifeform: phf, also oblig, 'Идут два чукчи по берегу Ледовидого океана. Oдин другому: - Хочешь политический анекдот расскажу?- Низя-я-я-я сослют.'
phf: mats: i got your point, but i was talking about a different case: people who are interested in trilema, but don't want to participate out of fear of losing their pantsuit jobs
mats: i see
asciilifeform: phf: the blindness of heathens is sometimes astonishing. i've actually ~found~ rather than lost work, 'ooh he contributed to open sores! we can mark the tickybox!' rather than lost... to date
asciilifeform: ohai hanbot_derpy . via propane modem, i presume!1
hanbot_derpy: howdy phf, glad to hear you're alive. popped in to say you seem in top form now that (perhaps) you don't care as much how it falls. holy shit i dun even have paste on this thing...else i'd paste loglink re asciilifeform's "flaws"
hanbot_derpy: acsiilifeform heya, something like that!
asciilifeform: incidentally, that warsaw, was site of not one but two rebellions where not 1 of the men had any reason to think he'd come out alive.
phf: hanbot_derpy: thank you for the sentiment
phf: hanbot_derpy: and you are probably right, since judging by recent trilema comments "it fell"
hanbot_derpy: phf fwiw we contemplated calling local hospitals when other channels failed, but in the end it seemed...intrusive w/o moar info. i'd hope it's obvious help was there if only the word were said.
phf: that's understandable, i didn't think mp's comment re hospitals was just a flare
phf: i ended up taking an overnight train from belarus. basically the doctor on friday misdiagnosed me and the solution he prescribed made situation worse. after that it took two more doctors before i realized that belarus might not be the best place to be sick
hanbot_derpy: asciilifeform the modern inhabitants put up with a lot more bs than one'd thereby expect, but there are some eyecatching remnants anyhow.
asciilifeform: hanbot_derpy: it was a hiroshima-style 'parking lot' in '45, and repopulated with peasants from countryside, so not much surprise
hanbot_derpy: phf hope the bumpy ride was at least moderately opiated. ouch.
phf: hanbot_derpy: i apologize about not picking up, didn't mean anything by it, i threw it muted somewhere into my stuff and didn't look at it until a week later
phf: a train was better than airplane. a night of laying vs an hour and a half of sitting. i probably would've stayed in minsk if girl didn't have an inspiration
phf: sunday i was already running 39.9 and 120 heart rate pretty much all the way till moscow
phf: but honestly i didn't expect there to be a place on earth at this point where you can't buy decent medical service
asciilifeform: eh there's usa. where i strongly suspect that if i contract whatever it was that phf had, will be buried inside a week
hanbot_derpy: wow. well, i wasn't exactly hoping you were in a ditch somewhere, but i did prefer it to the "just took off" hypothesis...just-- have someone pop in, say something, eh?
hanbot_derpy: i was pretty happy to gtfo of .by myself, by the time its number was ip, tbh
hanbot_derpy: ugh, ip/up
hanbot_derpy: asciilifeform buried in -debt-, mebbe
asciilifeform: hanbot_derpy: used to be like that. naodays more typically simply buried.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Varies by locality. Mostly depends on local court rules and consensus on definitions in medical malpractice legal practice
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: malpractice suits are most often a thing ~after~ burial, lol
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But they do determine local standards of care or at least the documentation thereof.
asciilifeform at one pt was nearly empanelled on a jury for such a case, but struck at last minute on acct of admitting to having relatives who practiced medicine long ago. process is intensely occupied with 'get ~anyone~ with half a clue outta the room!'
phf: hanbot_derpy: you're right
phf: i wasn't prepared at all for such a total breakdown though
phf: it feels like a complitely idiotic sequence of events, where at the end i'm stuck in minsk, slowly realizing that i have to somehow get to civilization because i'm not doing well at all.
phf: well, i need to rest, good night
asciilifeform: goodnight phf
lobbes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-8-3#476177 << this, ftr, is what drives my participation. I don't want to die having contributed nothing to this world
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2019-08-04 18:46 asciilifeform: imho moar accurate summary would be 'join us or your conscience will gnaw'
lobbes: however little that contribution ends up being in the end is almost moot. As long as others after my death view it as +ev
lobbes: fwiw, I am glad to see phf in good health (though I have not really talked with the man much, I use his work every day)
verisimilitude: I'm in this channel in part because I have no interest in ``joining the republic''. Am I to understand this is the wrong way to think about it, then?
adlai: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-8-1#476049 << glad you find it useful; it's actually a salvage from bitcointalk!
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2019-08-03 13:39 shinohai: And oh hey, adlai is in here thanx for posting https://github.com/adlai/bip0032sbcl on your Shithub, is invaluable tool for storing shitcoins until such a time I can move them to an exchange.
adlai hopes that phf has a thorough recovery, with appropriate medical assistance
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, mp's reply : http://trilema.com/2019/a-nickels-worth-of-clues/
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have nfi why you're here. ( really it's because this is ultra low-traffic chan and asciilifeform can't currently be arsed to gate it )
shinohai: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-8-5#476231 <<< double congrats then for finding something useful in *that* sea of shit.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2019-08-05 07:13 adlai: http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-8-1#476049 << glad you find it useful; it's actually a salvage from bitcointalk!
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2019-08-03 13:39 shinohai: And oh hey, adlai is in here thanx for posting https://github.com/adlai/bip0032sbcl on your Shithub, is invaluable tool for storing shitcoins until such a time I can move them to an exchange.
verisimilitude: I'm here because I was only interested in having conversations and whatnot with you, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: my work is part of a larger whole. it will make 0 sense w/out the context, this is proven fact.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 'the spittoon' (http://www.loper-os.org/pub/the_spittoon.txt , mandatory reading) 'is all in one strand !'
verisimilitude: That's quite a story and the relation to computing is obvious.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: indeed. but, as turns out, not only computing.
asciilifeform: the entire strand is also known as 'the republic'.
shinohai recalls reading that during early days
verisimilitude: That's a sickening thought.
verisimilitude: Anyway, you're telling me if I want even a little, I must drink the whole spittoon, then?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: most folx who try to take a sip, spit out, don't even get as far as sip.
asciilifeform: so 'must' is wrong word. but it is impossible to take strictly one sip, yes.
verisimilitude: I didn't really figure you as being as unpleasant as drinking from a spittoon, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's a parable. the christians for instance aren't literally preoccupied with how to feed entire battalion with two fish.
asciilifeform: the key idea, verisimilitude , is that 'the technical' and 'the political' are not factually separable, and that attempts to separate'em lead to exactly the sort of putrefaction seen in open sores etc
asciilifeform: ( to take simply that one domain as example )
asciilifeform: take, for instance, 'v'. it is specifically expression of the idea that it matters not only ~what~ software to use, but ~who~ wrote.
verisimilitude: Well, if I decide to ``join the republic'', I'll be deciding later. I'll leave again and return when I have something new to show you I figure you'd find interesting, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: feel free to lurk, if you like.
asciilifeform: ( though ben's log -- http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform -- still does work, you can read at leisure )
verisimilitude: I may find myself keeping up with this channel's logs, yes, as it's easier.
verisimilitude: Until later.
asciilifeform: in other news, phf at least partly back in biz! ( e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=m ) . thx, phf !
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news: http://qntra.net/2019/08/americas-today-uruguay-issues-travel-advisory-urging-caution-for-visitors-to-us-while-8chan-the-daily-stormer-and-bitmitigate-offline-following-scold-engineering-attack/
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc the 8chan d00d was offered piz and barfed. let'im reap what sowed.
shinohai: muh crapflare
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Forgot to cut the title. Splitting that part into different piece. This one is all Uruguay issues travel advisory for visitors to US.
asciilifeform: aa
BingoBoingo: Two pronged caution along "James Lafond presents Baltimore" and "manalone attacks on Mammy increase" lines
asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hnypd/?raw=true << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log (most recent ver.)
asciilifeform: still no backend, pending on trinque to publish the corrected cl (if it turns out he's at sea, will have to run with the old one)
asciilifeform: update: 'from'ism added.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YzMis/?raw=true << bleeding-edge snapshot.
shinohai: I have discovered today that Gentoo gets more fucked every release. Latest includes "gcc-9.1.0" which refuses to emerge any other compiler < 7.3.0-r3
asciilifeform: shinohai: i tuned out of 'classical' gentoo entirely when they 'fixed' portage to no longer accept my systemd/dbus/gtk3 ban
asciilifeform: portage dead in the water on 100% of my boxes.
shinohai: I decided to try latest on lappy I acquired today, garbage.
asciilifeform: afaik 2015 last usable trad gentoo install kit.
asciilifeform: (and remains ~usable strictly if you refrain from emerge --sync )
shinohai: BONUS: To get 7.3.0 still had to edit sanitizer_common/sanitizer_platform_limits_posix.cc and remove the ustat.h header.
asciilifeform: tbh i entirely don't care what has to be done to make gcc5+ go. i won't use'em.
asciilifeform: gcc5+ -- to the oven.
shinohai: well I was just wanting to see if, in fact, i could step down to gcc-4.9.4 ... but impossible with this
asciilifeform: shinohai: the 'step down' thing is an artifact of trinque's draft.
asciilifeform: it aint necessary if you start with a proper (i.e. gcc4.9-based) kit.
shinohai: Well I have frozen .iso with all necessary things (my recipe) ... as I said, was just experiment to see how much like Ubuntu it's becoming.
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason personally to touch the 'new' gentoos, just like for many yrs nao i haven't bothered to see what's in prb
shinohai: Well it's every bit as atrocious as you might imagine :)
asciilifeform: for folx not fully tuned-in, most of the action is on mp's www, from http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130666 an' down
bvt: hello. i have posted a work plan for kernel rng work http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/
bvt: i guess most people here are now tuned to the logs issue now (i don't think my help is needed there), but still would be nice to have some comments, even if later
asciilifeform: bvt: neato
asciilifeform: bvt: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-31 .
asciilifeform: bvt: i was on the way to genesising the kernel used in 'M' demo, when the logger thing fell on my desk.
asciilifeform: ( picked 3.16.70 , but quite arbitrarily )
bvt: btw, the rk3399 laptop you linked to somewhere in trilema has entered sales https://store.pine64.org/?product=14-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop ; if someone wants to gamble on it, it's there
asciilifeform: bvt: iirc it came up in #t . i looked at what it physically consists of , and lost appetite; e.g. starvation-cheap shit lcd, toy store kbd, etc
asciilifeform: now if they made a naked rk3399 board a la my rk3328, under 100 $ and with no onboard wirelessism, ~that~ would be something
asciilifeform: ( as it is, afaik there are none that satisfy either )
asciilifeform: bvt: the other difficulty of rk lappy is that the graphics controller in the rk is not afaik properly reversed yet, and will not operate w/out 'blobs'
asciilifeform: in my 3328 i did not have any such problem, because never even bothered to build display support into the kernel at all, all of my rk operate 'headless'
asciilifeform: but for use in lappy, this won't do.
bvt: myeah, it's not a x60-quality item for sure. the only potential win would be from battery life (which remains to be determined)
asciilifeform brb:teatime
bvt: re graphics driver -- i would not mind using it even without x11; as long as this works without a blob, should be fine for ~90% of use-cases
asciilifeform: bvt: dunno whether it can be made to work blobless even sans x11
asciilifeform not tried
asciilifeform: bvt: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-35 << replied
bvt: asciilifeform: also replied
asciilifeform: replied^2
bvt: ^3, and my next turn will be tomorrow - good night!
lobbes: asciilifeform: regarding your open call for a ZNC snarfer and shitter (http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130646); I believe I can help you with this request. Unless you can think of something better for my hands to work on at this time, then I will start on this now
lobbes: just to be clear: you need basically something that'll eat a ZNC log dir, and put it into a single .txt file, correct?
asciilifeform: lobbes: correct, but make sure to see phf.tar.gz (in mp's www thread) for exact format
asciilifeform: also gotta eat (and shit)'em in chrono order
asciilifeform: lobbes: znc log also uses 'calendar'-style timestamps; these gotta be converted to unix epochal, a la phf.
lobbes: asciilifeform: gotcha. I'll take a look at that tarball and start planning this out
asciilifeform: ty lobbes
Vexual: It's good that phf didn't die, no doubt he'll pay back the girl with a new life
Vexual: charge your glasses. to the lords, forever may you reign
Vexual: btw m'lord, I haven't seen too many things crossed of the pizarro list
Vexual: If you give me a pizarro email and a list of things for sale, I'll sell `em, gratis at first
Vexual: mathew@piz if u plis
Vexual: whatvea, idgaf, VexuL aint real pro
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksg-6gYP_us
Vexual: I hope out timelines meet up some time. I'll also consider .uy visits if you wanna see me go green on panamanian
Vexual: I saw rogan on b-real smoke tent. I have no illusuins that I can smoke away from home
Vexual: I prefer to be on the water with any cannabis
Vexual: 12 nautical mile notice of any visitor
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwYX52BP2Sk speedboat ftw
Vexual: marine cops here all have ais, so I use cetectors
Vexual: *detectors
Vexual: tarting up a shit boat is fun as fuck.
Vexual: will the good admiral alf leaVE his station when his pet grows heavy with kittens?
Vexual: wrong sheet
Vexual: at least I can't get sepsis
Vexual: sorry alf, #bottlebad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnoz5uBEWOA
spyked: asciilifeform, re http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130780 : how did you fix auto-reconnect for the bot?
asciilifeform: spyked: wrote new bot
spyked: hm. btw, asciilifeform, do you know of some way to reproduce the fleanode disconnect scenario? I want to try out new bot once genesized, and perhaps fix ircbot (since feedbot, pehbot et al. rely on it) while at it. i vaguely remember trinque mentioning pinger thread shutdown as an issue, but I haven't been able to figure it out myself so far.
asciilifeform: spyked: i have never reproduced it in a controlled way, no
asciilifeform: spyked: what did just now, is to write from scratch, new bot (in barbarous py) based on my understanding of the socket mechanics. will see how it stands or falls.
asciilifeform: spyked: i made the socket-receive blocking call have timeout. (non-catastrophic, simply moves the state machine back into recv.) if i find that this cures 'silent wedge', fix is quite trivially backportable to the cl bots.
spyked: ah, I see
asciilifeform: att all : logtron down temporarily for update
asciilifeform: ok let's try :
asciilifeform: grr 1s
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-08-08#1000000
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 14:07:05 asciilifeform: ok let's try :
asciilifeform: archive not filled in yet. but search theoretically worx
asciilifeform: e.g.
asciilifeform: кто
asciilifeform: !qs кто
snsabot: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE&chan=asciilifeform][2 results for "кто" in #asciilifeform]
asciilifeform: [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130817][seems to work errywhere BUT #t, lol]
asciilifeform: !qhelp
snsabot: asciilifeform: my valid commands are: seen, s, help, uptime
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 13m
asciilifeform: 'seen' not plugged in yet
asciilifeform: errything else (aside from connecting to #t...) seems to work
asciilifeform: !qs кто f:lifeform
snsabot: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%20f%3Alifeform&chan=asciilifeform][3 results for "кто f:lifeform" in #asciilifeform]
BingoBoingo: Nice
asciilifeform: [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130817][confirmed, cause is fleanode idjicy re +r]
asciilifeform: nao lessee if this worx :
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-08#1000000
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 14:14:15 asciilifeform: [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130817][draft of bot, running; seems to work errywhere BUT #t, lol]
asciilifeform: ...worx.
asciilifeform: attn folx : will reset bot in coupla min.
asciilifeform: loox like we're nao live in #t also.
asciilifeform: !qhelp
snsabot: asciilifeform: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime
asciilifeform: !q src
snsabot: asciilifeform: my source code can be seen at: http://not.yet
asciilifeform: ^ where genesis will go
asciilifeform: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-08#1000004][i think the username eater needs fix]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 15:20:19 lobbesbot!~limnoria@104.244.76.215: thimbronion: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: pretty annoying, there doesn't seem to be a standard regexpable format for these
diana_coman: thank you asciilifeform !
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma have to reset it prolly >1ce today
asciilifeform: about to fix the username thing
diana_coman: better to have a bot to reset once than no bot at all anyway
asciilifeform: ok, let's nao try..
asciilifeform: test, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-08-08#1000038
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 15:35:51 asciilifeform: ok, let's nao try..
asciilifeform: here we go.
asciilifeform: for folx tune in here -- [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron genesis] .
asciilifeform: spyked's chan added.
shinohai: Nice work on log-o-tron asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ty shinohai
asciilifeform: shinohai: don't hesitate to report bugola
shinohai: o7
asciilifeform: principal bug atm is that it's a py proggy and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926957][rather slow]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 15:58:42 mircea_popescu: lol this logger's like ye olde teletype machines, feeds lines palpably
shinohai: I glanced at your vpatch, at least it is python2.7 so slightly less unpalatable than current py
asciilifeform: shinohai: i dun even have >2.7
shinohai: ditto
asciilifeform: doomed to rewrite this eventually.
asciilifeform: btw,
asciilifeform: !q src
snsabot: asciilifeform: my source code can be seen at: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452
asciilifeform: ^ will always point to current src.
asciilifeform: [http://btcbase.org/patches/logotron_genesis.kv][and phf imported!], ty
shinohai: nifty. I hope phf intends on keeping his patch viewer up however, was best thing for such out there
asciilifeform: he [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926776][said that he will], and so far a++, doing it even from hospital.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:17 phf: btcbase will continue running the way it has been so far, and i will continue putting vpatches into patches at least until there's a replacement
shinohai: Ugh feel bad for the guy, my own hospital experience was nightmare and was difficult to get Ms. shinohai to agree to even bring me my lappy. >.<
shinohai: Now that I have 2 Ms. shinohai here, will be much easier should misfortune arise again.
asciilifeform: more -- merrier
asciilifeform: how did it go, 'tell one you're in the lab, tell the other you're with the other, get some work done'
shinohai: ^.^
shinohai: Bitnodes only shows 4 trb nodes nau O.o https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99
shinohai: (coin.dance still shows 6)
asciilifeform: shinohai: they seem to display ~random subset of the known (i.e. people who specifically diddled the ver string to show up there) boxes
shinohai: Last time I checked, saw all of the pizarro nodes
lobbes: asciilifeform: I have a question re: the unix epoch timestamps in the phf logs. So, when I look through them, I see two numbers essentially, e.g. "1440678;1459171457;"
lobbes: Now, the second number is obv the epoch timestamp. My best guess on the first number is that it is simply some sort of a line index of sorts.
lobbes: So, my question is: do you want the znc-eater.py to produce both numbers as such, or is just the unix epoch time adequate for what you need?
asciilifeform: lobbes: see readme.txt in the [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][genesis] plox
asciilifeform: ( you guessed correctly, the smaller # is index. it is not important in the absolute what it is, but ~must~ be monotonic and ~must~ agree with the existing indices )
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 0h 30m
lobbes: ah okay; reading the eat_dump.py in the genesis cleared some things up
lobbes: so, the monotonically increasing thing makes sense, but when you say agree with existing indicies, I assume you mean the existing indicies on *one particular implemented logger*, versus say "has to 'match' btcbase's indicies"
lobbes: in other words, like a 'knob' someone can set that says "eat these ZNC logs, making an index, but do NOT let index go past 10000" or somesuch?
asciilifeform: lobbes: ideally you'd count backwards from my 'bottoms' in the chans that are missing archive atm
asciilifeform: see constant 'newchan_idx'
lobbes: aha, I literally just thought "oh yeah, I could go backwards, huh?"
lobbes: sweet okay. this makes sense. ty
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 2d 13h 5m
phf: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6wcKt/?raw=true that's the CTCP action bits
asciilifeform: ty phf , makes sense
phf: also because irc is braindead those x01's appear in the non-utf8 context, but then right after ACTION ... rest might be utf until you encounter a closing 0x1
asciilifeform: seems to me that 0x01 can't even occur in utf8 at all, so safe to lose'em entirely at the intake filter
phf: ah but then somebody typing
phf: ACTION foo
phf: is equivalent to typing /me foo
asciilifeform: btw wb , phf
phf: eh
asciilifeform: who the hell would care whether 'ACTION foo' == '/me foo' tho
phf: well, if you want to parse /me ctcp actions
phf: a /me action is essentially a regular message with 0x1ACTION 0x1 wrapped around it
asciilifeform: currently it's a barbaric regexp on 'ACTION' at start of payload
asciilifeform: seems like the 0x01 doesn't occur anywhere else, can match on it there and lose it
phf: right, exactly
phf: and it should only ever occur at the end of action string, unless the action was too long, so the 0x1 at the end will be cutoff. on irc protocol level.
phf: ok, hope that helps.
asciilifeform: it does, ty phf
asciilifeform: phf if yer back inbiz , plz can update http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=m ? ty
asciilifeform: ( and http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=ffa also, diana_coman posted buncha sigs )
phf: kk
phf: i'll add an upload form, last time i attempted it it was on top of araneida and i had to write all the form handling code from scratch. it wasn't working too well..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/simd_tlb_errata.kv << hmm phf what happened to the press order lister on these ..?
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 3d 14h 52m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 4d 3h 16m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 5d 2h 19m
BingoBoingo: Nice
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 5d 15h 44m
mats: https://gitlab.com/bconway/resflash
asciilifeform: mats: used this ?
mats: its driving my apu1 router, i'm curious whether there's tooling like this for linux
mats: seems like 99% of people who want this, are already served by diskless boot
mats: especially since the original motivation was probably less about security than it was about avoiding ruining cf cards and what not
asciilifeform: mats: seems to me that the linux equiv. of this item is ye olde 'buildroot'.
shinohai: i suspect buildroot is correct answer, though havent yet done for mips or arm
asciilifeform: shinohai: the old pogo experiment (see trb ml) was for arm. (and [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3420]['M'] -- for mips)
asciilifeform: both via buildroot.
shinohai: oh wait i *did* do that build, but twas years back, and think i have an old trb w/ it
shinohai: (arm that is)
asciilifeform: there you go.
shinohai: i have gentoo running on erl2, uses octeon config
shinohai: (and of course, untested, is trying to use `m` to create custom image)
asciilifeform: shinohai: the 'm' demo image wasn't, as you can guess, built ~in~ m, but cross-compiled. ( there is not any disk support, of yet, in m, not network, so would be rather tricky to get ~out~ anything built therein )
shinohai: i should have elaborated, could be handy for *testing* prebuilt images :P
asciilifeform: only if specifically built for it
asciilifeform: 'M' doesn't emulate any of the traditional periphs found on physical mips boxen (aside from cpu itself)
mats: asciilifeform: i forgot about the pogo, ill look over my notes
lobbes: asciilifeform: so while testing reader.py I get a flask-related [deprecation error][http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AxZ4x/?raw=true]
lobbes: my current version is 0.12.2
lobbes: should I emerge teh 1.0.2 instead? https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/dev-python/flask
lobbes: and unfortunately, following the eggog's direction to use "flask_cache" instead results in a "ImportError: No module named flask_cache
lobbes: loox like commenting out the "cache" portions is adequate enough for testing tho. Shouldn't be a problem
lobbes: confirmed; reader.py runs fine once I comment out the couple of lines re: caching
lobbes: testing results are looking good in general. So, with phf's algo to eat uniturds added to eat_dump.py, such lines will be inserted into the database as e.g. "\u0092", but confirmed that reader.py renders said example as a proper apostrophe (tested this in "links" browser)
lobbes: going to look at a few more examples, and if those look good as well I will bake and publish that vpatch tonight
asciilifeform: lobbes: [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr_etckvvpatch/comment-page-1/#comment-59][answered re cacheism] .
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 3d 3h 13m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 4d 0h 46m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 5d 0h 57m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 5d 13h 17m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 6d 0h 42m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 6d 13h 28m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 7d 4h 9m
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 8d 4h 48m
shinohai: Congrats on the >1week uptime.
asciilifeform: shinohai: ty. so far all the resets were planned upgrades .
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 9d 2h 1m

2019-7-31 | 2019-9-1